Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

[Climber513]

Heres my issue. When this happened the first thing I thought of was bad solenoid. Keep in mind I have tried three different solenoids and still nothing. Heres my problem. I turn my key and get nothing. No click, no half turn, no nothing. I took a volt meter and tested my battery and its 12.6. I test the positive on the solenoid where the battery cable goes and it's 12.6. I tested the volts on the two small terminals on the solenoid and when I turn my key to turn the motor over I get 12.6, let off the key back to zero voltz. NOW when I turn my key and test the bottom terminal going to the starter I get zero volts. Out of three solenoids not one of them gave me any volts going to the starter. If I take a wire and jump the solenoid then the motor will crank a rotation. So theres my problem. No volts to starter.

NOW, one day I went out and this was going on and I took a break and when I came back I turned the key and it cranked the motor but there wasnt enough juice to keep it cranking so it would only crank a rotation or two. So I was happy and moved on to taking the steering wheel off and did what I wanted to do and when I put the wheel back on I turned the key to see if it was still cranking and back to nothing again. At this point I give up and I'm at a loss.

The motor is a 71 johnson 50hp.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

Automotive solenoids or BRP parts?

 

[Sprky]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

Have you looked at the fuse in the red fuse holder next to the solenoid?

 

[Climber513]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

All solenoids have been marine solenoids. I looked at the fuse and the fuse isn't blown either.

 

[Will Bark]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

I had a motor do that to me one time and it turned out to be the bolts holding the starter were corroded where you couldn't see it; cleaned them up and everything was fine. May be worth a look.

 

[BonairII]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

Def check all connections/grounds.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

Sounds like the neutral lockout switch may be messed up. One side of the solenoid coil should be connected to the ignition while the other goes to ground through the neutral switch. If the neutral switch is open circuit, then you will see 12V on both of the small solenoid terminals.

 

[Grandad]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

A "dead" or failing battery will show an open circuit (no loads being used) voltage close to its normal rated voltage. When a significant load is connected, the voltage will drop dramatically, perhaps to zero. After, if you leave the battery alone for awhile, the voltage (under no load) will again return to its normal rating. I'm not saying that this IS your problem, but the symptoms sure sound like it to me. Unless you've proven that the battery can provide enough current to operate a significant load, I'd try swapping it for your car's battery to see what happens. - Grandad

 

[boobie]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

Whaler, your post confused me. How can you see 12 volts on both small terminals of the solenoid if the neutral switch is open???

 

[Climber513]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

I had the battery tested and they said it was good and had a full charge. Yesterday I took my small boat out and the battery powered the trolly motor for about two hours until my brother fell in the boat and dropped his fishing pole in the water and watched it sink haha. So the battery is good but I think Ill try looking at the starter bolts and see what those are looking like. I really think it's something electrical but I just can't find it.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

Whaler, your post confused me. How can you see 12 volts on both small terminals of the solenoid if the neutral switch is open???

There would be no ground on the other side of the solenoid coil with the neutral switch open. There would be 12V at the input to the coil with the ignition start switch on, and the output of the open coil can (not always) float up to 12V. Ground the open output, current flows, solenoid closes. The thing to check would be the continuity of the ground side of the solenoid with respect to ground.

 

[daselbee]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

My vote is a bad ground on the starter solenoid. That would be one of the two small terminals on the solenoid; the one that NEVER GETS 12v. Take a piece of 16 ga wire, hook it to a known good ground, and then hook the other end to the solenoid ground terminal. Do not hook it to the terminal that goes hot when you turn key to start!!!... You have now bypassed the existing ground. Now try start.

The thing that bothers me about this post, is that he says he doesn't get a solenoid click....so that has to be fixed first.

 

[daselbee]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

There would be no ground on the other side of the solenoid coil with the neutral switch open.

Not correct. The solenoid ground terminal goes straight to the engine block with a black wire jumper. Not through the neutral safety switch. That switch controls the HOT side of the circuit...the yellow/red wire.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

I test the positive on the solenoid where the battery cable goes and it's 12.6.
.

You need to get your battery load-tested to ensure that it is OK.

I tested the volts on the two small terminals on the solenoid and when I turn my key to turn the motor over I get 12.6, let off the key back to zero voltz. NOW when I turn my key and test the bottom terminal going to the starter I get zero volts.
.

After you are 100% your battery is OK, do this test again.If the solenoid does not energise properly, you need to check all wiring and connection in the primary wiring to the solenoid.

The thing that bothers me about this post, is that he says he doesn't get a solenoid click....so that has to be fixed first.

Agree completely.

Out of three solenoids not one of them gave me any volts going to the starter. If I take a wire and jump the solenoid then the motor will crank a rotation. So theres my problem. No volts to starter.
.

So it probably is NOT a solenoid problem, but you'll see from test above.
Try bypassing the solenoid by connecting from the battery directly to the starter (+), and to ground (-) with jumper cables. If you still only get "a rotation" from the starter...you need to troubleshoot the starter.

 

[Climber513]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

OkAY.... Problem solved.. Well this one anyway. It was the ground to the small terminal on the solenoid. It cranks now but hardly turns over. I'm gonna charge the battery a little more but I think it could use a good new starter. Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

OkAY.... Problem solved.. Well this one anyway. It was the ground to the small terminal on the solenoid. It cranks now but hardly turns over. I'm gonna charge the battery a little more but I think it could use a good new starter. Thanks for the help everyone.

Your call.
You can run out and buy a new starter for $100- to $200-, which you may or may not need. In my experience, more than 1/2 of the starters that i have seen replaced did not solve the problem.

On the other hand, most auto parts stores that sell batteries will load test one at no cost. About 75% of the batteries that failed a load test seemed OK, but when replaced the original problem was solved.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

Not correct. The solenoid ground terminal goes straight to the engine block with a black wire jumper. Not through the neutral safety switch. That switch controls the HOT side of the circuit...the yellow/red wire.

Ya sure of that? The 1971 50 hp schematic clearly shows the neutral switch in the ground leg, as it is on the early twins.

 

[daselbee]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

No not sure. 1971 is way back....and if so, not at all like the more modern wiring.

However I do stand by the diagnosis that he was missing his ground for the solenoid operation.

And, if the neutral switch truly is in the ground side (and it probably is, your experience is greater than mine), then you are correct...he would see 12v on both sides of the solenoid pick terminals...but only when he turned the key to start position. But he didn't. He saw 12v on one side only when the key was turned to start. At least that is how I interpreted his original post.

 

[Climber513]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

No not sure. 1971 is way back....and if so, not at all like the more modern wiring.

However I do stand by the diagnosis that he was missing his ground for the solenoid operation.

And, if the neutral switch truly is in the ground side (and it probably is, your experience is greater than mine), then you are correct...he would see 12v on both sides of the solenoid pick terminals...but only when he turned the key to start position. But he didn't. He saw 12v on one side only when the key was turned to start. At least that is how I interpreted his original post.

You have it right. I only had 12v on the battery terminal and only when I turned the key did I get 12v to the small terminals but never did I get anything to the bottom terminal going to the starter. I jumped the starter from the battery and it cranked so I knew at that point I was missing something in the solenoid. I grounded a wire from the block to the small terminal on the solenoid and it had volts and cranked at the key. A missing ground wire was the issue.

 

[daselbee]

Re: Please help with this electrical problem.. Im stuck.

Well...sort of. I will now refer back to tx1961 who is actually correct. The "missing ground" is actually back up through the harness to the neutral safety switch. If you took my suggestion and used a jumper, you bypassed the "missing ground" with your own ground right there at the solenoid. So to fix it right, you should figure out why you are not getting a good ground through the harness/neutral safety switch circuit.

By the way, this is very different from the more modern motors' wiring for this circuit.

Good call tx1961.