Poppet Carrier fell in block

[andy6374]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

Originally posted by drummer0901:<br /> I am pretty sure it is seated against the grommet. I still worry where that other grommet went

I would be too.

 

[drummer0901]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

I guess pulling the powerhead is the only option. I have pulled motors from cars before, is this hard task? Would pulling the powerhead give me access to make sure all the passages are clear or should I just take this to a shop and tell them to fix it.

 

[gss036]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

I have been reading several threads on overheating the past few months and one thing I can remember in common with most of the long term problems that are not fixed with what you have been doing are "Either" the water tube/pump, etc are not sealing or else there are leaking exhaust issues. You are familiar with changing the water pump so the 1st thing I would do is pull the lower end and remove the poppet cover and then try to run water backwards thru the system. Then make sure you are getting a good seal at the pump-water tube connection to the block. I think if you take it to a shop and tell them to fix it, you will find your self with a huge repair bill, maybe more than the engine is worth in dollars.<br />The exhaust is pretty much open down the leg and maybe the grommet made it down there.

 

[drummer0901]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

Thanks for all the posts. Gary, do I just shove a garden hose in the poppett port and look for water in the down tube? you know, come to think of it, the copper tube came out once during the first time I installed a water pump, I carefully put it back and is stuck. If this were a blocked water tube problem would the Water pressure still climb as the RPM's increased? seems to me if would fall off or stay the same. When I rebuilt the Poppett I replaced everything but the spring. I will go to the local parts house and try to get that tomorrow. Someone mentioned that water should not drip out of the small hole in the poppett. What is the purpose of that hole? From the sounds of this my month off from school will be spent troubleshooting engine parts instead of fishing

 

[drummer0901]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

After doing a lot of reading on here, it makes me wonder about my water pump install. I put a new O-ring on the bottom of the water pump base, new gasket, base, gasket, plate, gasket, impellar with key, top half, thick rubber o-ring on top of housing. Inside the top of the housing (new from the kit) there was already a rubber grommett. I then used the white helper tube to push the copper tube into the housing. Is there some other grommet I should have used? I didn't see anything like that in the Merc. drawing.

 

[ronnieboy]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

did you replace the rubber gromets on top and bottom of water tube? if top one leaks , you will get exaust gas in cooling water, if this is happening , you will have LOW water pressure, My 150 v6 carries 3+pounds idle, and 23 + wot. Had lots of problems overheating till andy made me redo my poppet and spring. try the simple stuff first, good luck ron

 

[drummer0901]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

This is the 3 time I have had the lower unit off. I back flushed from the Poppett and everything is fine. All water exited the tube. When I tried the garden hose on the top of the water pump, it leaked out the front of the housing. Checked gaskets and they looked fine. I might try a new base and see if that helps. Here is what I think is the problem. I have a low water pickup, hose on the side that goes directly into the water pump base. Today when I pulled the base, a piece of the lower unit was blocking the hole from the inlet hose. I lighlty pushed down and it went back to place. It is like the metal area underneath the water pump where water comes in broke and rises when the system pressurizes. My question is can #1 is this supposed to happen #2 can the piece of metal be welded back in place, #3 is my lower unit scrap<br /><br />Here is a description of what I am talking about<br /><br /> http://manchestercitysch.org/wjh/boat.htm <br /><br />Mark

 

[drummer0901]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

Well a bit of good news, stopped at a local shop today and found out that the piece blocking my water inlet from the low water pickup is not metal from the lower unit, it is bondo that broke loose. This was to seal off the original water holes before the low water pickup was installed. A Little JB Welds Underwater repair and hopefully I will be set to go.<br /><br />By the way, my manual has not arrived yet, can someone give me the torque specs on the water pump housing bolts.

 

[KCLOST]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

That Bondo has me worried, are you sure that there isn't some more that may have got sucked up into the engine?<br /><br />Your water pressures are fine at idle, maybe even a little high... Which does not explain why you would overheat just going up on plane...<br /><br />Where in the heck is your temperature guage located and what is it measuring. 140F, should not even come close to causing the overheat switch to go off. It will not activate unto 240F.<br /><br />So I'm wondering if the temp guage is working or the overhat switch isn't?????<br /><br />On the poppet, the water leaking out of the hole in the cover indicates that the diaphram isn't seated properly, and probably indicates that the poppet may need re-positioning.. But your high pressures at idle does not indicate that water is exiting through it excessively...<br /><br />What rpms are you running at idle by the way? This is very important.. Or what rpms were you running when your water pressure was reading 12psi. Specifically, what rpms...<br /><br />Sounds more and more like a lean condition or a blockage inthe cylinder jacket? Possibly.....

 

[drummer0901]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

I am positive there is no bondo in the engine. I back flushed for 5 minutes from the poppett valve with the lower unit off. Also, there was no bondo missing, it had just cracked and I assume because of water pressure lifted the entire piece and blocked the inlet hole from the low water pickup. I pushed it back down tonight and used some JB weld to hold it in place. I might even skim it again tomorrow to be shure it doesn't lift again. How is that supposed to be installed anyway? seems like bondo is weak for that but anyway. I am not real sure about the rpms at idle however I think they are in the 750-900 range. What should idle RPM's be? I am waiting for my manual to come in. Another thing I noticed when I first got the LU off, I put a hose on the upper housing inlet/outlet and water ran out of the front of the housing. I probablly tightend the nuts too tight. I have no idea where the temp sensor is connected, it is the one from the factory installed in the dash. The temperature gets to about halfway (160ish) and alarm beeps.

 

[crabcake]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

http://forums.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=29;t=002230;p=1#000001

 

[drummer0901]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

crabcake,<br /><br />Thanks a bunch, I will try that

 

[drummer0901]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

Today I checked I reinstalled my lower unit, ran for 20 minutes in a bucket and still have 12.5 PSI at idle. Idle RPM's are 800-900. The temp gauge never made it past 120. I pulled the poppett and reseated everything, checked the screw but still have very little drops of water out of the poppett valve. I didn't replace the spring when I rebuilt this, but I have tightened the screw as tight as it will go. Would that spring be causing the small drops?

 

[andy6374]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

well if the spring didn't have enought elasticity it wouldn't seat the poppet properly. But I am not sure if this is your problem. The wrong poppet won't seat properly too!<br /><br /> FWIW: It's best to replace everything in the pressure relief valve "system" while you're at it. This way if the problem persists you can disregard this system as the culprit.

 

[drummer0901]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

Andy6374, <br /><br />Do you suppose that I have entire wrong poppett assembly? How would I know, I ordered parts according to what came out

 

[gss036]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

http://www.mercurypartsexpress.com/PartsExpress/ProductSelection/ServiceParts/sphome.asp?CID= <br />Go to this link, enter your sr# and check the part numbers against what you have already installed.<br />I am not familiar with that old of a V-6. Might be that you have a high pressure, low volume type pump. My Merc Manual tells me that my 89 200 should have 12 psi at wide open throttle(WOT). Some Merc's will read 22+ psi at WOT.<br />If the poppet was opening at idle, you would be overheating at idle after 20 minutes. I would think more along the lines of gaskets/washers/water diverter being installed in wrong order. If you had a ruptured poppet diaphram, you would have more water coming out of the vent.

 

[drummer0901]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

I think I have it whipped. After replacing the water pump base and gaskets, water pump upper housing, thermostats, entire poppett valve, my engine now idles at about 120 degrees. At WOT it gets a little cooler, never did the temp gauge climb higher than 140. 12 psi at idle and about 22-25 at WOT<br /><br />Thanks iboats for all the help!!! Unfortunately, now I have a miss in the ignition and can only get a max of 4700 RPMS. I have done a compression check, range from 124-130 on all 6. Plugs were changed before I bought the boat. I will check tomorrow to make sure I didn't hit a wire or something when I put the poppet back on

 

[KCLOST]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

drummer, <br /><br />Good to hear that you have some good news... But there is no way that your temp guage is measuring metal temps on the head... Your readings are way too low for that....<br />And since your overheat switch is most likely measuring metal on the head (which is designed to sound the alarm at 245F), I would switch the temp sensor so it measures the same thing...<br /><br />Very easy to do..<br />Let us know where the temp sensor is located...

 

[KCLOST]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

More info,,<br /><br />My engine will run at 180F after idling for quite a while... At no-wake speeds it will run at 200-210F... WOT it runs at 200-210F also....<br />Why? it measures metal temps on the cylinder head just below the top port side cylinder, not far from the combustion chamber...<br />Also, I have never had an overheat alarm...<br /><br />My concern for you is, that you need to have both the temp guage and the overheat switch measuring the same thing... Otherewise, you will never know what the danger sone is... Water vs Metal is a completely different animal...<br /><br />In regard to your miss fire problem, keep in mind, that a non-firing cylinder near the temp or overheat switch can result in drastically lower temps at that location...

 

[drummer0901]

Re: Poppet Carrier fell in block

KCLOST,<br /><br />Thanks for all your info. My temp gauge in the dash maxes out at 240. Why would the engine run so cool?<br /><br />There is a sensor with a brown wire from both sides that is mounted to the top of the head. I assume this is temp sensor.<br /><br />I think I found my miss, #3 plug, evidently I didn't tighten well when I did compression check. Going to the lake now to check it out