porpoising

dihwp734

Cadet
Joined
Nov 4, 2001
Messages
22
I have an 18' Hewes Redfisher with a 2001 F100 Yamaha. When the boat gets up on plane it porpoises unless the trim tabs are adjusted. Need some advice on how to fix this problem. I am using a Turbo Flats SS 4 blade prop. :confused:
 

Rex

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 12, 2001
Messages
424
Re: porpoising

? what does the tack say.<br />you need to go just a little bit higher or<br />lower to put the nose in the water.<br />Rex
 

Mike M2

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 24, 2001
Messages
98
Re: porpoising

Usually a sign of the motor pitch being too high. when you trim your motor down, it still does it? One way or another, you need to get the motor angle further down.
 

dihwp734

Cadet
Joined
Nov 4, 2001
Messages
22
Re: porpoising

The rpm range for the motor is between 5000-6000rpm. Wide open it turns 5200rpm and goes 39-42mph. <br />Could raising the motor on the transom fix the porpoising problem, or do you think it might have something to do with the prop I have? :confused:
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: porpoising

Howdy, Red. Porpoising is generally a sign that the motor is trimmed too far out. The motor (engine) tries to plane her up too far but hasn't the thrust to keep her there so she falls back and starts over. Trim the engine in a bit, go to a shorter pitch prop, raise the engine an inch or so. . . any would reduce the prob. This is very common on older boats repowered to very heavy 4 stroke engines. <br /><br />I had it with a overload of only 50 lb over the 2 stroke weight the boat was designed for.<br /><br />Red sky at night. . .<br />JB :)
 

Mike M2

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 24, 2001
Messages
98
Re: porpoising

We replaced a transom not too long back on an older CC, the way it was designed there wasn't enough angle on it. newer boats seem to angle the transom out more at the top, where this one was almost straight up and down. In turn, the motor, a late model, wouldn't pitch in enough at the bottom, causing this problem. We tried everything to get more pitch to the motor, but we just couldn't get enough. The answer was trim tabs!
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: porpoising

A doelfin mounted on the cavitation plate is a cheap and effective fix.
 

suzukidave

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 1, 2000
Messages
387
Re: porpoising

I may be missing something since no one else has said this so I'll steal Schematic's disclaimer "I'm no expert but..." aren't you just overpropped? <br /><br />From the rpm range you give it looks like your boat is very nearly overpropped (you only have 200 rpm of operating range). Is it porposing at 5200 rpm, or at less? Do you need to play with the tabs to get to 5200? Whatever the answer you could tehoretically take as much as 4 inches off the pitch and still not hit the boat's rated w-o-t. I would drop down at least 2 inches of pitch if I were you. I think you may be porpoising in part because you are lugging the motor. You mentioned a 4 blade prop -- that probably gives you the illusion the prop is right because of a decent hole shot. I wonder if your motor is working like hell to get to 5200 and just can't hold steady at that rpm. That would cause porpoising. That's exactly what my boat did when I tried a prop too big for it. I then put trim tabs on and the porpoising problem went away but I was still overpropped.<br /><br />Anyway, I raise all this because the first question I had from your initial post was "what's the problem if his trim tabs cure it?". One purpose of trim tabs is to allow you to run with your motor trimmed out further (or closer to having the prop horizontal when the boat is on plane). This lets the prop concentrate on pushing the boat forward. The tabs hold the bow down and keep you on plane so you don't need to trim the motor into the boat as much to force the bow down which is inefficient for the prop since then it is pushing up as well as backward to create the necessary downward pressure on the bow. Without the trim tabs, a boat will lose downward pressure on the bow and porpoise as you trim it out. If you trim the motor in when you have trim tabs you are defeating the trim tabs, wasting energy and going slower. <br /><br />To put it another way, my motor has manual motor trim and my boat has trim tabs. If I ran without the trim tabs on my current motor trim setting I'd porpoise for sure because I have set the motor trim way out. I don't consider that a problem. That's what the tabs are for!
 

dihwp734

Cadet
Joined
Nov 4, 2001
Messages
22
Re: porpoising

What size and pitch prop do you reccomend?<br />2000 18' Hewes Redfisher 1075lbs<br />2001 F100 Yamaha four stroke 356lbs<br /> :confused:
 

suzukidave

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 1, 2000
Messages
387
Re: porpoising

Red, that's a tougher question than you might think. I just emailed a friend some stuff about this so thanks to the magic of cut and paste you can have a bunch of advice for free (just remember what you paid for it).<br /><br />Every motor and boat combination is unique and you are too far away from what I think is the right prop for me to tell you for sure even if I knew the prop details you have now. You're probably going to have to use a little trial and error. In my view, you ultimayely want to be able to run the boat at 5800 rpm or higher to be letting the engine usually run in a comfortable range. My guess is that the same prop as you have at 2 or 3 inches lower pitch would get you there. However, the change in performance for a prop change that big is hard to predict, especially if the diameter increases as the pitch drops on your prop model. You also may not want to keep that prop design if you are dropping pitch because 2-3 inches of pitch drop is going to cost you top speed you won't recover in the increased operating rpm. You accordingly may want to switch to a faster 3 blade prop and only drop an inch or two in rpm. <br /><br />Either way, I'd start with what you know and work away from that. So take your existing pitch diameter and prop model. Record its speed and performance at a few different rpm intervals and then follow one of the two options below.<br /><br />Option one - ask the prop dealer<br />The path of least resistance is to make it the dealers problem to advise you what prop to try, so it's his fault not yours if he's wrong. There are half a dozen companies selling props on the web. Call one up or a local dealer and ask them. Be careful of dealers who don't offer you the option of trying out more than one prop. No matter what they tell you I doubt they will know for sure what will work best for you the first time in this case.<br /><br />If you want to figure it out more precisely yourself, or you want to switch from a 4 blade prop to another deisgn, then consider the following variables: <br /><br />-every dereased inch of prop pitch will gain you btw 150-300 rpm at w-o-t or vice versa.<br /><br />-every increase of 1/4" in prop diameter costs you about 100 rpm and vice versa.<br /><br />-if you switch from a 4 blade to a 3 blade, you will gain w-o-t rpm on the same diameter and pitch prop, but the exact amount will depend on the prop design. 4 blades give better hole shot and control but usually cost you high speed (the best 4 blades apparently perform almost as well as three blades at speed, but I can't afford them).<br /><br />-going to stainless steel from aluminum/composite will cost you 150-300 rpm or vice versa. A s/s prop will be faster than an equivalent aluminum at the same rpm, and may perform better overall.<br /><br />-manufacturers tend to decrease the diameter on a prop as the pitch increases to increase the range of props that can be used on the same boat/motor. This tends to reduce control and increase slip for higher pitch props. Stay with the manufacturues recommendation, but remember that a bigger diameter gives you more control.<br /><br />-Slip is the measure of the inefficiency with which your prop pushes you boat through the water). Normally a small power boat will have less than .2 slip (or 80% efficiency) but it varies greatly by design. You can calculate your slip in two steps. First multiply the pitch of your prop in inches by w-o-t rpm x 60, then divide it by the gear ratio on your motor leg, and then convert the result from inches to miles (divide by 63360) and you have the speed in mph for your boat if it was perfectly efficient. Then compare it your actual speed at the same rpm and you know your slip. A bad slip rating may point to a poor prop chose for your boat/motor.<br /><br />-lower pitch props are slower, but generally offer better hole shot, and, since they are bigger diameter, more control.<br /><br />whew, I'm going home
 
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