Practical? No! Possible?

[Dennis4b]

Hi,<br /><br />Before I get flamed, I know most of you will think it's a stupid idea, not practical etc, but I am going to ask anyway <br /><br />Start with:<br />

<br /><br />A Flipper 620, nice boat! We bought it halfway during last summer. As they say about boats, there is no better way to get an idea of what you want in a boat than to find out by experience! <br /><br />Now, there is one thing we would like to change. Converting it from outboard to inboard. "Whyyyyy" I hear people scream! "Nooooo" I hear others. Well, first because it is better in this climate (there's 30cm of snow outside right now! Summers are better of course but you get the idea). Outboards are very expensive, always, and a 4 stroke would be definately unaffordable (or at least the Significant Other would not like it very much!) 2 stroke performs just great, but is bad on the fuel and I feel a bit guilty about the pollution it creates.<br /><br />On a more practical level, it is easy to get an old big HP 4stroke engine and fix it up in a garage over winter and install that inboard, much easier and cheaper than it is to improve upon the ouboard setup.<br /><br />I have included some pics of the transom, I guess it's pretty much like every boat, but you never know.<br /><br />

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<br /><br />It would mean sealing off the back so it becomes straight rather than having the outboard "hole" in it (sorry for my terminology). Then cut away on the inside to make it a big space. Install the through-hull parts of the stern drive. Set up an engine rail/stand to install the engine on. Make a cover for the engine. Fix up details such as fuel lines, electronics, controls, etc.<br /><br />Mind you I am not saying we've started cutting already, or that it is really going to happen. But if it's possible it will solve a lot of things, so I am just wondering if there are any pointers, maybe websites for similar projects, etc. Glassfiber/mechanical expertise sources are there, I'm just sure there's some big Uh-Oh's we haven't thought of yet.<br /><br />I'm sorry if this is not really an appropriate topic, but the time we spent last summer getting the boat ready (with an old outboard) was just as much fun as the boating itself, so it's not like we mind a project

 

[Dennis4b]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

Ok, I am replying to myself, that's a bad sign! <br /><br />From what I've seen by looking at the boat so far, the transom part where the engine is mounted (wooden plate on the pictures) already reaches above water level. This does not have to be extended further to the back. In other words the modifications would not compromise any part of the boat's structure that is in contact with the water (which could raise safety issues of course).<br /><br />All that would happen is, now imagine the pictures without the engine, the big "dent" in the boat to accomodate the head of the outboard would disappear, and instead the transom (see wooden plate) would be extended straight up along the back of the boat. The hull structure would not be affected. <br /><br />This would create enough room on the inside for an engine, and a hole would be made in the center (and bottom) of the transom to accomodate the stern drive. <br /><br />Just so you don't think I intend to cut up part of the boat that it relies on to float!

 

[Mike M2]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

Ok, i got one question. Is that boat gonna be long enough to have room for a doghouse in the middle, and still have enough length underneath for a driveshaft? May just be the pictures, dont look it to me. Take a picture from the side once and post it.<br />Hey, anythings possible, just depends on whether it's worth it to you. Will be a lot of work. What about a pic of the stringers inside?

 

[Dennis4b]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

Mike,<br /><br />Boat is 20' (6.20m long, 2.45m wide). It comes in 2 versions, one outboard style and one sterndrive style. They're otherwise identical.<br /><br />Here's a side picture anyway:<br /><br />

<br /><br />The "dog house" would be pretty much against the back though? That's all the ones I have seen anyway. They all looked small enough to me.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

One more problem with this idea,and I'm afraid it is a biggie...Center of balance.<br />THe hull wa designed to have all the motor wieght far aft. You can still put an I/O in it, but the hull will plow like a John Deere.<br />No amount of trim tab will compensate.<br />You could rework the hull by cutting the cabin out,and turning it into a center console, but it might still be bow-heavy.<br />JMHO

 

[Dennis4b]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

12Footer, thanks for the input <br /><br />There is an identical version of this model, hull, cabin, etc, that has an I/O.<br /><br />It's true that the engine weight would be on the other side of the transom, but nowhere near the middle?<br /><br />Btw, I think it just might be the first set of pictures, because the boat is already a center console. Funny thing is that a friend has a totally different boat, I/O, also 20' (more than 20' and the price goes up exponentially!) and the driver's seat is in exactly the same spot (centerwise). <br /><br />Also, an I/O will be heavier (currently outboard is 85hp, ~130 kg?) but also more powerful. Doesn't that offset things?

 

[hondon]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

You will no doubt have to cut up a portion of that deck.Then ,what are you going to put the motor mounts on?Are there sringers in there that will readilly accept what you have in mind?Practical?Far from it.Any thing is possible.

 

[Mike M2]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

Ok, are you thinking inboard, or I/O? An inboard will put the doghouse up where you steer, I/O in The back. I think you may be asking for more than you realize. I dont know about your area, but here in the Chesapeake area, hulls are easy to come by, they're everywhere. Motors are the big thing here. Here it just wouldn't be practical, when a little looking around can get you what you want. As 12f says, an I/o weighs a lot more than an outboard, Man there are soooo many variables, wow. Lot of work only to find out it dont work!

 

[evin300]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

Dennis, so why not an outboard? There are other choices than Dirty old outboard and 4-stroke outboard. Have you looked into Direct Injected outboards? Put a V-6 on your boat, it looks underpowered to me, unless of course, you are happy with current performance.<br /><br />Another thought, Return On Investment ROI, So you save some money going to IO? maybe, but when you go to sell it someday, the discrete buyer and or surveyor will de-value your boat I am afraid.<br /><br />My opinion is, if you must have an inboard, then sell this boat and buy another, you will be much further ahead. Good Luck

 

[Dennis4b]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

Hmmmmz. Hulls and engines are very expensive over here. The current engine (underpowered yeah, though works quite nicely!) was actually designated to be scrap material by the original owner.<br /><br />The only way we will have a new power source next season is to find something that is considered old or not worth fixing up by someone else, and taking that and restoring it. I'm sure these will include also bigger engines, (HP)DI, etc, but they'll be hard to find. <br /><br />The current engine, apart from being a pig to start, is otherwise very reliable. I've seen nearly new engines give trouble, and they were expensive engines! (over here btw, these things are not as cheap as in the US).<br /><br />An I/O would be more attractive because it would be 4 stroke, inside, fresh water cooling, no burning oil (that adds up too), provides decent charging power (currently we get 9 amps, not always enough), and even provides heating. <br /><br />I guess it will depend on what kind of engine we are able to find. It's not like I won't think of anything else to do with the boat in the mean time

 

[Yepblaze]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

Not to be snide, but.....<br /><br /><br />What makes you think that you can aquire, rebuild, and install an IO unit for less cost than a newer larger outboard?

 

[jack avery]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

Just in case this may help out...I have a v-6 chevy I/O in a 23' Proline walk-around cuddy. It puts out 185 hp. I bought the boat with the engine frozen and proceded to rebuild the engine so it sparkled inside and out. By the time I was done I spent around $2500 just on the engine alone, and I didn't touch the outdrive. I could have bought a good used outboard for what I spent on the I/O. <br />I also once had a 20' boat that I wanted to convert from an outboard to an inboard. It was a wooden Grady White. I contacted the manufacturer concerning this and they replied that the boat would never handle properly due to the weight of the inboard being too far forward. I could have gone to either another outboard or an I/O, but not an inboard.<br />As far as maintenance goes, it costs me as much for the I/O as it did for the 135 hp Evinrude that I used to have on that old Grady White. The mileage is roughly similar between the two engines. If it were my project, I'd start looking for a decent used outboard and power that nice looking boat the way it was designed to be powered.

 

[suzukidave]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

Dennis, my 2 cents are to get any old outboard big enough for that boat and you'll save $ and never look back. Apart from the crazy amount of work you're thinking about, most likely the only way you'll get a used i/o and leg is if it's thrashed -- no one's likely to go the expense of pulling them otherwise -- so that leaves new or rebuild and your vendor will probably be a dealer. On the other hand, you can get a used o/b cheap without a dealer markup and it's relatively easy to swap.<br /><br />My experience comparing the costs of running i/o's and outboards is roughly 2 to 1 in maintenance.<br /><br />Plus there's resale -- once small boats fall out of the first tier of desirability in terms of newness etc..., I think they are worth more with outboards than i/o's. There's a reason for this! Outboards are easier and cheaper to maintain, and much easier to swap. Get yourself a big old Merc or Johnson<br /><br />Now if you ever think about yanking an i/o and leg, glassing over the hole in the transom and mounting an outboard or two on an extension, I'm very interested. I've been thinking of doing that for years if I ever want to run a boat over 20'. I'd get a nice old i/o hull with a shot motor/leg for next to nothing, and put all my $$ into new outboard power.

 

[Hooty]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

No yea or nay comments form me but just as a point of interest, back in the dark ages when I/O's first hit the scene, boat mfg's ( Lone Star, Glastron, Sterncraft, etc.)just changed the transom's on their existing O/B's and made'um I/O's. No biggie. The way I see it the big problum Dennis will have is with build and tying in the transom, stringer/engine supports and last but not least the "X" dimension, i.e center of the cutout for the outdrive. <br />I guess with those long winters, a guy needs a project like this.<br /><br />g'luck & c/6<br /><br />hooty

 

[oar master]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

are u going to run this boat in salt water or fresh. if salt your making a big mistake by switching to an i/o. your looking at new manifolds/ risers in 3-4 yrs. it's a nice looking boat, why mess with the original design? i'd stay with an o/b.

 

[Dennis4b]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

Hi everyone, thanks for all the friendly replies!<br /><br />The boat runs in salt water, today we took it out of the water, lots of ice hanging off the engine, fuel hose, steering cable, etc. Lot of snow too, so it's probably best <br /><br />Today I will get some trading mags, start to get an idea of prices for well, outboards. What kind of power should I be looking for anyway? Currently it's 85hp, which at WOT will take the boat to 24 knots (I don't know the RPM at WOT, sorry), holeshot is fine (don't have anything to compare it to, but I don't complain about it). Gas mileage is terrible, which is to be expected Though I'm sure a properly tuned, bigger more modern outboard would do better in that regard.<br /><br />Hooty is right about the long winters though! But there are enough other things to play with. Firstly, how to get the yellow-ish gelcoat back to pristine white? Fix interior, make it nice, etc etc. No risk of getting bored! <br /><br />I would like to thank everyone though for their time and effort to reply. This board is great.

 

[just_glenn]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

I don't know how things are across the pond but over here there are serious bargains to be found on Ebay. You might search for something that would fit your budget there. This is the time of year to be looking too. A little bit ago I managed to obtain a 6hp Johnson for under $170. I put plugs and a $3 fuel filter on it and it's just as sweet a motor as can be. With this board as the great resource that it is, I'll bet you can manage to find a project motor that will keep the other half happy. And what's better than finding a bargain that you fix up for your own pleasure?

 

[C17LoadSmasher]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

That motor looks seriously small for the size of the boat, I can only guess how much that puppy weighs! I would go the route of slapping a larger O/B on there, one of those oil-injected ones to save on the pain of mixing oil and fuel.

 

[Dennis4b]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

Hi,<br /><br />Boat (without engine) weighs about ~900-1000kg. The hull is mostly a good-weather hull, meaning it's quite flat in the back, and in rougher weather tends to slide sideways more on the waves than a deeper V-hull, but I've compared both and it's not more uncomfortable actually, I'm very happy with the way it behaves.<br /><br />Good thing about the hull is that it takes little power to get it planing and little power to get it going. I was surprised at the top speed with only a 85hp myself <br /><br />Btw, when I say salt water, it's actually the Bay of Finland which is connected to the North Sea only via a small patch of water, so the result is water that is not as salty as the real thing.

 

[norman158]

Re: Practical? No! Possible?

Dennis<br />i don't know if you can get this where you are but i used some stuff called on and off made by mary kate on one of my hulls put it on with a paint roller and hose it off worked real good