PreSeason blues......

[duck-n-pond]

1996 50hp force 2stroke. Done all post season prep to motor last fall. Ran carb cleaner, fuel/stabilizer, and fogged engine, changed lubes, etc. Engine worked like a top last year. Trying to get cob webs out for summer but motor won’t start. I have managed to get it going a couple times in the driveway with the muffs on it, and let it run a long time on idle, but very difficult to restart it. Took it to the marina to go for a run, but killed a battery trying to start, so I never even released it from the trailer. Fresh gas used. Electrics seem ok, tested everything, but still thinking of taking off all connections and cleaning them up. Any other suggestions??

 

[scotiany]

Re: PreSeason blues......

I'm wondering if the fuel pump diaphragm went bad. It's easy enough to check and replace if necessary. What makes me think this is you said you used carb cleaner. Was it the kind you put in the tank or the kind you spray into carb.

 

[eurolarva]

Re: PreSeason blues......

Carb cleaner as scotiany says is not a good thing. I would also be worried about the rubber gaskets and seals in the carb. When you prime the bulb does the bulb get hard without loosing gas near the carb? How many turns out for seated is the mixture adjustment screw on top of the carb

 

[roscoe]

Re: PreSeason blues......

Is the choke/fuel enrichment valve working?<br /><br />Try squirting some premixed fuel through the carb throat before starting.

 

[duck-n-pond]

Re: PreSeason blues......

How do you check a fuel pump diaphragm? Looks easy enough to take apart, but what do I look for. Didn't know that carb cleaner was bad (used the spray in type). Will take carb off today and check it over, was hoping to avoid this. Have to spray fuel into carb throat to start engine, but don't often work. Funny thing is, once I do get it started, it will idle fine for as long as I leave it. If I shut it down and try to restart, no way. Fuel bulb don't really get 'hard' like I am use to, but it firms up somewhat. I figured my problem had something to do with that fogging spray.

 

[eurolarva]

Re: PreSeason blues......

The fogging spray is good. The diaphram for the fuel filter costs 9 bucks. NAPA sells them for a lot of outboards or you can try here <br /><br />When you are pumping on bulb you said it does not get hard. Do you see gas leaking around the carb when you keep pumping? You may want to replace all the fuel line and clamps while you are at it.

 

[duck-n-pond]

Re: PreSeason blues......

I took apart the carb, looks good and clean, float valve works ok. Removed and cleaned all electrical conncetions (found some loose grounds). Also verified ing/lanyard wiring and actually have same disconnected at motor BLK/YEL wire in case. When pumping bulb, no leaks at carb or gas lines, have gotten fairly hard but concerned about the tank line, sometimes while pumping, bulb can feel like pressuer lost and air in the bulb??? However, I did get the motor started eventually without spraying into the carb. Idled fine. Shut it down and now will not start again. Pump 'appears' to be working because I was watching the inline filter fill with fuel after starting the engine. Now I am fusterated. Thanks for above replies so far.

 

[duck-n-pond]

Re: PreSeason blues......

I dunno, still no luck. Waiting for it to get darker to check spark easier. Perhaps there is something intermittent with the CDI. Have a clymer book, but not too good. They tell you how to take stuff apart, but little detail on actual working operation.

 

[eurolarva]

Re: PreSeason blues......

Gasolines are tough on rubber. You mentioned it with your gas lines. The fuel pump diaphram will get really brittle and may be giving you the problem you are experiencing. How many turns out is your mixture adjustment screw on top of carb. Count turns while turning clockwise then put it back where it was. What is the condition of the plugs. You may be in too rich a condition or too lean.<br /><br />You mentioned you did not have this problem before you put it away. I would look at the small orifices in the carb again. If you have not rebuilt it do so now. If you did and you did not replace the welsh plug you may want to do it now. There are small holes in there that you can clean with a fine wire and compressed air. If you use carb cleaner you want to make sure you have all the rubber out of it.

 

[duck-n-pond]

Re: PreSeason blues......

Went out in dark last night to have a better look at spark (rim fire plugs). Seems to me that the top cylinder had very little spark compared to bottom. When out today and got fresh plugs, still no luck. Going to try spark again tonight and may have to troubleshoot ingition sys. Don't think problem is fuel because when I turn it over without plugs in, a nice mist cloud comes out of plug hole. Not sure how to test input to spark coils but will try a few things.

 

[duck-n-pond]

Re: PreSeason blues......

OK. I'm really pissed now. Here's what the current is. Got new plugs, still no go. CDI seems ok. Went out after sunset today and checked spark on both plugs...good spark and same on both sides now (guess I needed plugs anyway). Also used an electrical emf detector on plug wires while plugs installed and shows voltage on both wires. Fuel seems to be getting to the chamber because I can see a mist cloud (an smell the fuel) when turning without plugs installed. Blub pumps firm now, too???? Also took line from fuel pump and ran it to a bottle while turning engine and a good stream comes out, a little pulsing consistant with the rate the engine is turning. As for the idle screw, it is one full turn from clockwise seating. Doesn't make sense, engine should run at least catch a bit. From what I can see timimg is a mechanicl setup so can't see how season storage can screw that up. Would like to take to a shop, but I am on strike so bucks are few and far between (wait until the wife sees the fuel I bought....expecting to go for a ride). Any more suggestions of things I may be capable of appreciated.

 

[eurolarva]

Re: PreSeason blues......

Are you sure you have the correct plugs. What did you do different to make the bulb firm? When trying to start this you are using the choke by pushing key in? As far as checking a diaphram to see if it is good you cant. You should just replace it. You shoud rebuild carb instead of just cleaning it. These steps need to be done first to eliminate them from being the problem. There may be nothing wrong with carb or fuel pump but without rebuild them there will always be doubt.

 

[CoachHolland]

Re: PreSeason blues......

I'm having a problem with fy force where after it starts, it runs perfect, but it is being a pain to actually get it to start. Basically, have new plugs, the engine is cold and it will eventually start. However, let it get warm, the plugs end up bad and it won't restart.<br /><br />Took it to my local marine repair guy and after two weeks now down there he's finally figured out it is one of the power packs. <br /><br />It sounds like the exact same problem you're having. I was checking everything and everything seemed perfect. However it wasn't until the engine got warm that it showed that the power pack was failing.

 

[duck-n-pond]

Re: PreSeason blues......

CoachHolland, I hope you are wrong, but I am beginning to suspect that you are correct. I do notice a small amout of exaust some from the prop exaust after trying to start. Can see what looks like lots of spark from the plugs, wondering if it is enough, though. Wonder if anybody know of any way to test the ignition assy without the merc test harness. Got a Clymer book, but not so good. Would really like to KNOW what defect is before I buy parts. AS I said above, I am on strike and can't afford to rebuild this and that hoping to accidently correct problem. Starting to look like a dry dock summer for the boat, thank God for my sailboard so I can still get wet....for free!

 

[duck-n-pond]

Re: PreSeason blues......

Does anyone know of a good way to test the stator and trigger assy?

 

[duck-n-pond]

Re: PreSeason blues......

Have stator and trigger tested, both test good and resistance checks on coils seem good. Finding plugs seem wet, but was hard to tell where they were shiny new surface fire plugs. When I dab them on a paper towel, leave wet print. Going to try remedy badly flooded engine (hopefully thats it) but may need card rebuild as someone suggested above. Who knows where I will mislead myself next...perhaps a new prop will help it start or maybe new bow registration numbers? Blindly going where no one with sense is willing to venture........

 

[eurolarva]

Re: PreSeason blues......

I am betting on a fuel issue. Maybe try loosening the cap on your gas can. If the can is not venting you could be having problems. Could be the primer bulb on gas can is defective. Total fuel system rebuilding is under 50 bucks. Just one stator is over 50 bucks and cdi is over 200 bucks. It is cheapest to verify fuel then electrical. When you mentioned plug was wet does it smell like gas. When you crank are you doing it with muffs on or in a water test tank? Cant hurt to get different bow registration numbers.

 

[duck-n-pond]

Re: PreSeason blues......

Turning over with muffs. Plugs smell of fuel. Before I replace anything, on the advice of a local 'old hand' outboard guru, I unplugged gas and pulled plugs and turning it over every now and then. Going to let it sit for a couple days to dry out a bit. He suspects it's badly flooded and I keep making it worse. I hope he is right.

 

[duck-n-pond]

Re: PreSeason blues......

Ok I've been away for a while (contemplating life's cruel joke played on me). Perhaps you guys heard of this one: in dark, checked spark on plugs - firing blue and consistant. Put spare plugs in block (to create compression)with good ones still grounded to test postion and turned engine over, but spark now inconsistant and sometimes firing only on one side (one set of plugs installed, one set on coils to look at spark). Tried this a couple of times and now think it is the lead to a solution I have been looking for. What would cause this?

 

[CoachHolland]

Re: PreSeason blues......

I'm still thinking the power pack. Darn near exactly what was happening with mine, even though it was a Force 85.