Pressure Treated or Not??

[ondarvr]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

They use products like Greenwood PT boat panels.

http://greenwoodproducts.com/store/boat-panel.html

There are others, but this supplier is on the West Coast so its used here frequently.

This is the same product I use.

As I said in my previous posts, if you're going to use low cost CDX, the low cost PT will perform in about the same way. Not that it would be the best product to use.

 

[18WCmerc]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

you can buy PT and use it, but it needs a lot of time to dry out if possible, hardware tends not to last too long when used.

ext ply is good, go through the pile at your local hardware to find the best sheets, no cracks, splits, huge voids, etc...

either way, your new deck will last longer than your factroy deck because youw ill do a much better job than the factory. make your glass a memebrane for the wood and you will be good to go.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

All hardware on a boat should be stainless, so it shouldn't make a difference.

 

[18WCmerc]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

Even stainless has its "voids"... if you have ever fabricated anything in your life other than your wifes kitchen cabinets you will find stainless steel still rust and corrodes in time.

I forget what they are called or coated with, but i used to use a anti corrosive all weather screw that were brown rubberish coated, they also suggest a hot dip galvanized screw.

I used them a lot for jon boat bow deck construction, and other heavy weather construction, they are probably a higher end decking screw.

here is a link by folks that know more about fasteners used with PT wood than any of us combined will ever know.

http://www.strongtie.com/productuse/PTWoodFAQs.html

enjoy...

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

This is a quote directly from your link.

"Hot-dip galvanized or stainless steel fasteners, anchors and hardware are recommended by the Pressure Treated Wood Industry for use with treated wood."

The SS nuts and bolts typically purchased are junk, like everything else there are many grades of SS.

Since I use the type of PT I linked and its held in place with SS bolts, and has been for 10 years, I can say yes it works fine with no corrosion issues.

 

[D Hanny]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

This is a quote directly from your link.

"Hot-dip galvanized or stainless steel fasteners, anchors and hardware are recommended by the Pressure Treated Wood Industry for use with treated wood."

The SS nuts and bolts typically purchased are junk, like everything else there are many grades of SS.

Since I use the type PT I linked and its held in place with SS bolts, and has been for 10 years, I can say yes it works fine with no corrosion issues.

I read that line, too, and was wondering what the argument was...

Just where does one get the better SS fasteners?

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

Many of the nuts, bolts and hardware of all types of steel are mass produced in China, they will stamp just about anything on it you, or they want. There is stuff stamped Stainless that will rust after the first time it sees any moisture. Go to an actual nut and bolt retailer and they will supply you with exactly what you need.

 

[D Hanny]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

Many of the nuts, bolts and hardware of all types of steel are mass produced in China, they will stamp just about anything on it you, or they want. There is stuff stamped Stainless that will rust after the first time it sees any moisture. Go to an actual nut a bolt retailer and they will supply you with exactly what you need.

You mean like a Mom & Pop hardware shop?

I take it that you also mean to stay away from Home Depot...

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

These are the types of places to buy SS nuts, bolts and screws.

The first link has 376 pages of SS bolts


http://www.fastenal.com/web/product...ts&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&searchBox=1


http://www.tacomascrew.com/products/search/stainless/1

 

[Outsider]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

I think that I am going to go with the PT ply,

Go back to where you bought the PT and ask for information/literature on it. Seems the current gub'ment-required pressure treating chemicals tend to eat fasteners. Your boat, your choice ...

 

[D Hanny]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

http://www.fastenal.com/web/product...ts&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&searchBox=1

Wow, I've got a Fastenal place within 3 miles of where I live. Awesome.

 

[Cadwelder]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

Pt was around then, but that was in the middle of the build it fast and cheap era, and many (most) of the boat builders hadn't been around long enough to know how 20 year old poorly covered plywood would hold up. It wasn't until some time in the 90's that more companies started using PT.

Won't argue the build it fast and cheap, but they were not new, started in 1955. I think it was mostly just the older engineers and owners that had strong views on "this is how it's done, period" . There were a ton of smaller companies all over middle and east Tennessee at that time. There was a small guy (4 -5 employees) called Janmar only built about 30 or so boats a year, but they were built as well as any boat anywhere.

Sorry about the comment about manufactures don't use PT, I was going by what I knew during the time I worked in the factory. And friends that worked in other plants around the area.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

BTW, a Bayliner sales brochure I have from 1985 lists the stringers as being made from "treated" lumber. The word "pressure" did not appear, but it says treated lumber nonetheless.

 

[NSBCraig]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

BillP your statement commenting on Mark's insane advice is way off and you apparently don't have a clue about the thread I was referencing.

Second I'm not basing anything off one document of any kind that is what Mark and now you are doing. A document that plainly states they are discussing a specialty product not HD pt. (easier to come to that conclusion then the other at least)

Which was also put before you by YachtDR's link which though yes came from a web site about home repair contains facts provided by the organization that determines the different rating of different PT wood.

Funny how they plainly state that there are differences.

What companies build with PT ply bought from HD? NONE!

Some build with marine specific PT, lots use non PT marine.

Pressure treated ply is in no way in the same state of quality as the same ply that was not put through the process of treating and then being left to dry. I use it all the time, I cut PT ply and non PT ply all the time. They are not at all the same.

PT ply from HD should be the last possible choice for use as your core material.

 

[NSBCraig]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

I'm not really sure what the controversy is, if someone is going to use low cost exterior ply (CDX) or something similar, then cheap PT would perform about the same, the difference would be the actual chemicals and possible warping.

I'm not saying these are the best grades of ply to use, just that they will perform about the same, only there will be less chance of rot with PT.

No way! Work way too much with both, simply not true.

 

[BillP]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

BillP your statement commenting on Mark's insane advice is way off and you apparently don't have a clue about the thread I was referencing.

Second I'm not basing anything off one document of any kind that is what Mark and now you are doing. A document that plainly states they are discussing a specialty product not HD pt. (easier to come to that conclusion then the other at least)

Which was also put before you by YachtDR's link which though yes came from a web site about home repair contains facts provided by the organization that determines the different rating of different PT wood.

Funny how they plainly state that there are differences.

What companies build with PT ply bought from HD? NONE!

Some build with marine specific PT, lots use non PT marine.

Pressure treated ply is in no way in the same state of quality as the same ply that was not put through the process of treating and then being left to dry. I use it all the time, I cut PT ply and non PT ply all the time. They are not at all the same.

PT ply from HD should be the last possible choice for use as your core material.

Smoke and mirrors? Nobody has posted (in this thread) that cdx and marine pt ply are the same. The APA is "discussing" the pt process, resin tenacity, wood grades, etc...nothing else. They leave the engineering decisions (grade, structure, application) up to the user. The empiracle evidence and hard core engineering data is available from credible sources for anyone who wants to do the research. It's obvious by your statements that you haven't studied much.

Poof.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

Hi Bill!

Don't waste your time talking to Craig. There are dozens and dozens of threads where people say to use pressure treated ply for the deck, but Craig never jumps on them. He just has a hair up his butt because I link the documents that prove its is a preferred material in boat building.

BTW, I really don't recall recommending Home Depot lumber as the primary source. I always recommend going to a "lumber yard". I may have mentioned HD at some time, but Craig just loves to twist around what you post to make himself look good. Also note that he has a propensity for name calling and derision. Two traits that are common to bullies and those in the wrong.

So don't bother with Craig. Do like I do and just laugh at him. He's a good joke.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

Hi Bill!

Don't waste your time talking to Craig. There are dozens and dozens of threads where people say to use pressure treated ply for the deck, but Craig never jumps on them. He just has a hair up his butt because I link the documents that prove its is a preferred material in boat building.

BTW, I really don't recall recommending Home Depot lumber as the primary source. I always recommend going to a "lumber yard". I may have mentioned HD at some time, but Craig just loves to twist around what you post to make himself look good. Also note that he has a propensity for name calling and derision. Two traits that are common to bullies and those in the wrong.

So don't bother with Craig. Do like I do and just laugh at him. He's a good joke.

Okies... this sounds like half a PM and half post ( I do this all the time ) .

Lets just Chillax as Christmas is here..

I Dont think Anyone ( excluding me ) should be laughed at m8s.. Craig is just another contrubutor to the forum.. and should not be held in contempt...

Personally.. I agree with Craig and his "Extream differences" .. ( he may not know the in and outs..and maybee he does.. I dunno ) .

I have been kinda .. erm.. lean on the topic..

You can use PT..
You can use cdx..
you can use bc..
you can use whatever you want..but if your asking ..then use the Right STUFF.. ( Anyone here wants to say that DF MG grade ply IS NOT the BEST for your TRANS or STRINGERS speak up please.. ) ..

Yes .. you can use cd..bc..ab..whatever ply you want if you Think its in your Price range !.. your going to use More resin and time to make your ( Insert trans or stringer replacement here ) replacements without using MG ply...PERIOD ! .. ( Unless your getting some crap ply that will WARP as soon as you cut it .. ).

No need for the Science...just Know what your using..and how to use it.

I personally..again..use ONLY MG doug fur .. it does not warp as much when cut..and its everything as much as everything .. no questions asked ( unless I dont seal it right ) ..

Tabbing your trans is MUCH more important then what "filler/wood/etc" your trans is made of.. .. MAT will not cut it when tabbin your trans...

Too much involved in the core..and not enough in the Tabbing IMO..

Peace out..YD.

 

[Cadwelder]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

The orginal post was which is the best to use PT or regular plywood. The answer is the BEST to use is marine grade plywood, I don't see any that disagree with that point. The arguement seems to be what grade,(other than MG) being PT or not. And that answer is purely opinion, some have stronger opinions that others, but none the less opinion. As YD stated the really important part is how well the glass job is AFTER it's installed. Personally (and this is ONLY my opinion), I don't like pressure treated anything, I've used pressure treated for posts and non-pressure treated for post and the PT actually rotted out before the cedar posts did, so I'm not fond of the PT wood.

 

[vergil]

Re: Pressure Treated or Not??

I really dont want to put more sticks in the fire, but what about adventech, it is considered a type of usb, but it has a 50 year warrenty, my expiernce with it has always been really good, have seen where its been left flat on the ground for a year nothing seemed to hurt it, not saying its as good as marine plywood, but maybe a cost worthy alternative to redeck an older boat where a budget would be required, and i understand that everyone wants to do it right, but after so long even marine plywood starts to lose its top layer when you go tearin old carpet up