Problems..... Update

[tcsigler]

Hello all, <br /><br />Went out Saturday to play with the boat. What I discovered is, if I run a cable straight from the battery to the solenoid, it will engage, and if I run a cable straight from the battery to the starter motor, it will spin. So, the motor will turn over, start, and run with no problem, so long as I jump it straight from the battery. If I try to start it from the ignition, I still get one click. I also ran a new cable straight from the ignition to the solenoid to see if that line could be bad, ended up with the same single click. So, not sure where to go from here. <br /><br />If I go straight from the battery to the solenoid, should it engage the solenoid and the starter? Or should it just engage the solenoid? <br /><br />Could the solenoid not be pushing enough power to the starter?<br /><br />Thanks again yall...<br /><br />Oh yeah, I do need to get a manual, which one do yall recomend??

 

[Don S]

Re: Problems..... Update

Like I said in my previous post, the wiring is too long, too old, and probably corroded. That would put too much resistance in the wire. That is why the newer boats use a start slave relay or solenoid. The old wiring only has to operate the coil in the relay instead of the starter solenoid.

 

[tcsigler]

Re: Problems..... Update

So, you think that I should start to re-wire the boat? I replaced the wire form the ignition to the solenoid...

 

[Don S]

Re: Problems..... Update

Not rewire the boat, check out the start system wiring. You may have to add a start relay at the engine so you get full power to the starter solenoid. Then the ignition switch would only have to operate the slave relay instead of the complete starter......MUCH LESS amperage required through the old wiring.

 

[tcsigler]

Re: Problems..... Update

okay... Thats good, I do not want to spend to many dollars, I think that I will be going to Iraq in August. I just want it to work properly till I leave...<br /><br />One question, then I will quit bothering you...<br /><br />If I run straight from the battery to the solenoid, should the the starter motor spin too?<br /><br />Thanks

 

[Don S]

Re: Problems..... Update

It depends on which terminal on the starter you are touching.

 

[lakelivin]

Re: Problems..... Update

Don's probably right, and I don't want to beat this into the ground, but might be worth double checking.<br /><br />I know you said you 'checked' all of the electrical connections & grounds, but does that mean a visual inspection OR actually taking ALL of the connections/ grounds in the starting system apart, sanding/ cleaning, preferably applying a protectant, and retightening? Just double checking as I've seen more than one post on here where that solved the problem...

 

[trog100]

Re: Problems..... Update

if u jump from the battery live terminal to the connection that the wire from the ignition goes to on the solenoid and the starter turns.. do as don says and fit a relay.. (probably a good idea anyway) if all u get is a click u have a faulty solenoid.. doing this will make 100% sure of what is the problem.. wire or solenoid..<br /><br />trog100

 

[tcsigler]

Re: Problems..... Update

That is what I did and all I got was a click ....

 

[DamnitBadger]

Re: Problems..... Update

When you ran the new wire what gauge wire did you use? You might try going up a couple of gauges to reduce resistance. It's worth a try and would be cheaper if it works. Just a thought from a board newb

 

[trog100]

Re: Problems..... Update

sounds like it is a faulty solenoid then.. a solenoid is just another name for a relay.. years ago before pre-engaged starter motors they used to have a little button on the end that u could press to activate the starter.. and before that a wire which u pulled via a knob an the dashboard went straight to a big starter motor switch..<br /><br />now they do two things.. they act as a relay.. small current from the ignition switch activates big current to drive the starter.. its the big power contacts that tend to burn up on em.. the click u hear is the unit working but not passing enough current thru the big switch contacts to power the starter motor..<br /><br />the other thing they do at the same time is to move a lever which pushes the starter motor drive cog into mesh with the flywheel teeth.. <br /><br />i think u need a new solenoid and while u are at it fit that little relay thats been mentioned to solve any possible long wire problems and bad contacts from the ignition switch..<br /><br />trog100<br /><br />ps.. i did say jump from battery live terminal by the way.. if all u did was run a new wire from the ignition switch it could still be ignition swich linked.. bad contacts in the ignition switch..

 

[tcsigler]

Re: Problems..... Update

I used a 3ft section of 4gauge wire...

 

[trog100]

Re: Problems..... Update

this one all goes back to the guy who tested your starter motor in the first place.. if u ran the wire straight from the live battery terminal to the correct place on the starter motor solenoid and all u got is a click.. the solenoid is faulty..<br /><br />we know the starter motor itself works dont we.. <br /><br />i dont think we have any if or buts on this one.. <br /><br />trog100

 

[waterone1@aol.com]

Re: Problems..... Update

TCsigler, Going back to your original question on this post. If you run a wire straight from the battery to the small "start" terminal on the solenoid and all you get is a click....the solenoid is bad. The solenoid does two things: 1) the coil in the solenoid becomes a large electro magnet, which "sucks in" a lever which "pushes" the starter gear to the fly wheel, 2) when the solenoid has "sucked in" or energized, it closes the two large contacts which supplies battery voltage to the starter motor...which makes it spin. From your post, it sounds like the solenoid is sucking in, however it sounds like the two large contacts inside are shot and not energizing the starter motor (which is why it will spin only if you jumper to the motor straight from the battery (or jumper across the two large terminals on the starter). I would suggest that you replace the whole starter. If on a tight budget, you could just replace the solenoid. Make sure that whatever you replace is marine grade, and not automotive. By the way, all of this "jumping" is most likely making some pretty big sparks....make sure the engine area is well ventilated before you blow yourself up.

 

[Don S]

Re: Problems..... Update

Right now, the big problem is no one knows where you used your jumper wire. You just say it will work using a jumper, not which terminal. So that makes it impossible to determine if it's the starter or the wiring.<br />Your starter solenoid has either 3 or 4 connections on it. Below is a picture of a typical GM starter solenoid, your's is close to that, but not exactly. (I don't have a picture of your exact starter) You may have push on terminals or threaded terminals or both, hard to say.<br />Anyway, in the picture below, A is where the main starter cable from the battery should be hooked up. B is the small wire coming from the start side of the ignition switch and is the terminal used to energize the solenoid. C is where the power from the solenoid A terminal gets to the motor when the solenoid is energized. D is what puts battery voltage to the ignition side of the coil when starting and has nothing to do with the start function of the starter.<br />NOW, if you put your jumper on the A terminal, nothing should happen. but, if you do and the engine will then start with the switch, you have either a bad cable, bad battery switch, bad connection or a combination of all of them.<br />If you put your jumper to C , the starter motor will run, but the starter won't engage. If you put the jumper to B and the starter cranks the engine, then you have a wiring problem to the starter solenoid. If it only clicks when jumped to B , then you have a bad solenoid.<br /><br />

 

[tcsigler]

Re: Problems..... Update

thanks yall...<br /><br />I am jumping it to B, and getting the one click. So, I think that, with yalls help, we have narrowed it down to the solenoid....I think that my next step is to find a cheap solenoid...<br /><br />I have been learning alot from iboats!!!!!

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Problems..... Update

tcsigler -- you said....I think that my next step is to find a cheap solenoid... I have been learning alot from iboats!!!!!<br /><br />I hope you didn't learn about "cheap" from this forum. There are items on a boat where you can tolerate "inexpensive" (cheap if you wish). A starter solenoid takes alot of abuse and is a part that you don't want to go "cheap" on, especially since there is only a few bucks difference between a part that "may" get you by, and a quality part that you can trust. While you have the starter off doing the solenoid swap, why not pop the end plate and take a look at the brushes. They are indeed "cheap" (compared to everything else on a boat) and now would be a great time to replace them.

 

[Don S]

Re: Problems..... Update

Did you also make sure the ground cable going from the engine to the battery is clean, tight and in good shape. All the batteries in the world won't do any good if you don't have a good ground.<br /><br />I still find it hard to believe that a place that works on starters couldn't find a bad solenoid.

 

[tcsigler]

Re: Problems..... Update

I ended up replacing the ground cable and the main power cable. I figured they were old and that I would rather replace them now then have one go bad while out on the water. <br /><br />When I say that I have been learning alot on iboats, that is because I have. <br /><br />I say that I would like to find a cheap solenoid, because the ones that I have found so far are roughly $200.00. I would much rather find a used one somewhere for less than that.

 

[Don S]

Re: Problems..... Update

Before you buy a new solenoid, try jumping across terminals A and B. Do you get just a click then?<br />Then jump from terminal A to C. Does the starter motor turn (NOTE: Starter will not crank engine, just run the starter motor).<br /><br />A 14ga. wire will do both of these tests.