Problems with 1975 Johnson 135hp not running

fseventy

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
47
Howdy. I'km new to the boating world, but good with mechanical things.<br /><br />I just aquired a 1975 17 1/2 ft Marlin with a Johnson 135hp power trim outboard from my father-in-law. He cleaned out the gas tank before giving it to me. Last he ran it was 2 yrs ago after a carb tune up, and it sits in his barn all year.<br /><br /> Took it out 1st time and it ran like crap. He kept saying it should go faster and "it seems like it is running only off of the alternator"??? It has electrical gremlins where the power trim will not work, only click and make a buzzing sound, and the engine will not crank. He "messed" wih the wiring and then trim and start would come back.<br /><br />After changing to marine grade plugs I took it back out today. Power trim only clicked at the solenoid and buzzed, engine made no noise whatsoever when trying to crank. With the ignition key ON, I managed to pull start it. Power trim works with engine running. After warm up, it ran like a bat out of hell. Tons of power and ran smooth. After noticing the tach was pegged out past 6000rmp, I throttled down and turned around. Completely lacked power at full throtle and would load up and stall. Limped into dock and had to winch the boat up onto the trailer. Took many button presses of the power trim before it "caught" and pulled the engine up.<br /><br />What gives? Is the power trim tied into the solenoid and that is what is causing both electrical problems? There are lots of exposed wires that I have taped up, maybe something is shorting out when moved/turned?<br /><br />Thanks for any help.
 

ledgefinder

Ensign
Joined
May 2, 2002
Messages
916
Re: Problems with 1975 Johnson 135hp not running

At least two issues, maybe more, so let's handle them one at a time. <br /><br />Can you describe in a little more detail how it ran? Did you try anything when it started running poorly, such as squeezing the fuel line bulb?<br /><br />Also can you verify that the battery is fully charged?
 

R.Johnson

Rear Admiral
Joined
Sep 24, 2003
Messages
4,446
Re: Problems with 1975 Johnson 135hp not running

First! take a look at the battery connectors, they are probably a deep green with corrosion after all this time. If you have wing nuts on the battery, replace with stainless steel, or brass nuts. That engine has a magneto, capacitor discharge ignition. It is totally independent of the charging, or alternator system. As to why the engine bogged down on return trip to the dock, you will have to trouble shoot both the ignition, and fuel system's. Start with compression, ingnition, fuel.
 

fseventy

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
47
Re: Problems with 1975 Johnson 135hp not running

details....<br />Father in law said he "somewhat" charged the battery last Saturday, and we hit it with the charger for two hours immideately before taking it out Sunday.<br />We had no issues starting/trimming the motor at home with the 'muffs. Put it in the lake and no crank, clicking solenoid, but you could trim up and down. Finally got it started and it never sputtered but just lacked any guts, and would not rev beyond 4800 rpm.<br /><br />Changed plugs from "highly" fouled bent center electrode type to marine grade with flush electrode. I also ran some Seafoam through the engine by spraying it into the carb with a squirt bottle while idling with the 'muffs on. I also started hacking into the wiring... removing old fish finder wires, old radio wires, etc... I also taped up any exposed wires leading to the engine, at the battery, and under the dash. Cleaned up corrosion on the batt terminals. I completely replaced questionable wires in some cases.<br /><br />I notice it has a new starter(3-4 years old??).<br /><br />at different times during the week of working on the wires the issues with trim/tilt not working would pop up, but magically fix itself. Sometimes I would move/shift wires around to get this to happen, sometimes I would only remove the neg batt cable for a few seconds. Also, when the tilt/trim would stop working and it would not start, the horn would not work either. The horn is wireed directly to thre battery. After removing the neg batt cable for a few seconds, the horn would work until I tried to trim or start it. I guess I should meeasuer volts when this happens.. sounds like it might be discharging a lot of current at a short in the wires.<br /><br />Charged the battery for 2-3 hours last night. 12.7 volts before chanrge and it was pulling 13.8 volts while charging. I also kept the battery on a "maintenance" charger all week.<br /><br />Today, trim/tilt did not work unless the engine was running. I got nothing from the key start, but I could eaisly pull start it with 1 or 2 pulls when cold with some starting fluid. Idled the boat out through the no wake zone and slowly brought it up to speed. It ran great! Smooth power, trimed it up just until it cavitated and then backed off, and we were flying across the water. Brought the speed back down a couple of times and back up again. Before slowing down to turn I finally looked at the tack and saw it pegged at 6000rpm. Throttled down and made a 180 turn, throttled back up and the rpm never made it past about 4000 and ran gutless. Crused along this way back to dock for 5 minutes and it just died with no drama at all. Trim/tilt no work again, and no electric start. After mutiple failed attempts at pull start I remembered I never squeezed the fuel bulb and thought I might as well give it a squeeze, at it was tight. Finally pull start and made it about 20 seconds before sputter and die. This happened 2 more times before we made it to the dock.<br /><br />So even with what I believe to be a hot battery, I still get clicking from the solenoid when using tilt/trim and differrent clicking the trying to start.<br /><br />I can jump across the solenid from positive to the center terminal to test start it right?<br /><br />How long is safe to run the engine at home with the "muffs on? Is there anything as too much water pressure when running the 'muffs?<br /><br />Since my father in law "cleaned" out the fuel tank, a clogged fuel filter might cause the loss of power and sputtering right? The fuel filter is under the cover right?<br /><br />Since it is a 75, it probably has a generator rather than an alternaor, right? I can't seem to find anything that looks like either alternator/generator.<br /><br />Thanks again for the help.
 

R.Johnson

Rear Admiral
Joined
Sep 24, 2003
Messages
4,446
Re: Problems with 1975 Johnson 135hp not running

You need a manual! The engine has a alternator, which is a stator winding under the flywheel, with a rectifier mounted to the engine back panal. The only under hood fuel filter is a screen on the inlet side of the fuel pump. You still have some faulty connection's somewhere. Check the main ground, or battery strap bolted to the engine block. Have you tried a different battery? You could try hooking battery direct to trim motor to isolate cause. Loss of RPM after warm-up could be ignition problem, sensors, charge coil, pak, coil, (coils) you need a manual, and go one step at a time. That engine has sat idle for some time, so hard to say. Faulty carb's won't let an engine run for a length of time, fall flat, then heal up after sitting awhile. My bet is an ignition problem.
 

fseventy

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
47
Re: Problems with 1975 Johnson 135hp not running

Well turns out I was intimidated by new stuff (never owned or messed with a boat before) so I ignored the easy answer and stirred up trouble instead. Bad battery was the source of the problem with starting and trim. Swapped the batt from my 70'Camaro and tilt and start work great. I also did a compression check and found that all cylinders are between 125 and 150 PSI. Pretty good for an origioanl 1975 eh?<br /><br />As far as the drivability issues... I found an unplugged hose on the bottom left side of the carbs, and after removing the fuel "filter" I see that the screen was starting to pull away and some crud was about to make it's was past into the motor. Not sure what the disconnected hose is for until I get my manual in the mail soon, but my guess is that some crap got past the "filter" and allowed the carbs to flood. I added a good inline filter between the tank and screen. I'm really not interested in pulling the carbs apart yet to see if there is crud in the fuel bowl, so I'll set myself for more punishment and take the boat back out to see how it runs. At least now if it dies over and over, I can at least get it started without pull starting it every time.<br /><br />Thanks for the help.
 

alden135

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
1,770
Re: Problems with 1975 Johnson 135hp not running

DO NOT USE STARTING FLUID. Washes the oil off.
 

fseventy

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
47
Re: Problems with 1975 Johnson 135hp not running

"DO NOT USE STARTING FLUID. Washes the oil off."...<br />Why is this different in a two stroke vs. a four stroke? Even a quick 1/2 second shot of starting fluid is going to wash oil away??? <br /><br />After going out with a fully charged battery and Sea Foam in the tank, it ran like a champ. No issues at all with starting (actually tried it without starting fluid and it did great) No drivability isses at all.
 
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