Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Boy, I am pretty beat today. We had a pizza lunch after service this morning, so we didn't get home until 1:30 or so. I take a few minutes to surf iboats, and the next thing I know, its 4:30!!! So I race outside looking for something to do on the boat. Didn't take long and I found a nice anal-retentive type thing to do...

The two end pieces to the recessed deck in the photo below get screwed in place so they can be removed if needed for whatever reason. So I drill 1/4" holes for the #12 stainless steel screws, then mix up 1/2 oz resin and paint the inside of the holes using those little wooden coffee stirrers. Just the right size to fit in a 1/4" hole and spread resin! As I'm doing this I think that only guys taking 8 years to building a wood sail boat did stuff like that. Hope I'm not getting obsessed. Or at least not more than I already am.

Have a good day, cuz I'm done.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

A few weekends have passed and I didn't get anything done due to various events and the constant rain. But today the top came off the boat and back into the garage for fairing. So far so good. One nice thing about making your own epoxy fairing compound is you can custom mix it for different situations, extra thick putty to fill a hole, or thin and smooth to apply a skim coat.

This is the first skim coat applied to some of the rougher areas.

The final mix that seems to work well for what I'm doing is 1/2 epoxy, 1/6 glass balloons, and 2/6 silica fibers. This makes a nice paste very much like Bondo filler and spreads nice and smooth. The glass balloons give it the grey color.

Another nice side affect of adding the thickeners is the cure time quadruples over straight epoxy. So there is lots of work time, and larger batches can be made without fear of it kicking off and losing half the mix.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Finished first coat on starboard side and half of port side. Also some seams across the top. Had to stop because the lighting in the garage is not good for bodywork.

 

[zach103]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

looking better and better

 

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

looking better and better

Thanks zach! The fairing is a real milestone for me. Maybe I can get two hours in on the top before work tomorrow! So far its working better than I imagined it would.

 

[redfury]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Hey, before you know it, you'll be laughing at everyone getting wet in the 3 foot breakers...

 

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Hey, before you know it, you'll be laughing at everyone getting wet in the 3 foot breakers...

Ya might think.... But this morning took the 7" sander to the epoxy fairing from yesterday.... Oh boy! That stuff is as hard as, well EPOXY!!!!! Darn!!! All the micro balloons and thickener did not seem to make it any softer. Sanding the fairing out is going to take a while. I may even have to order a belt sander to help with the final surfacing. Going to check out Harbor Freight.

Believe me, this is the last epoxy based project I do.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Heh. It's all in the additives.

For fairing I'd use microballoons only. Cabosil will make it rock hard, so will wood flour.

I'm actually considering using a commercial fairing mix for my next project like Bateau's quickfair, since they pre-mix it just right to be able to sand it. If you get the mix wrong, you're sanding rocks

 

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Heh. It's all in the additives.

For fairing I'd use microballoons only. Cabosil will make it rock hard, so will wood flour.

I'm actually considering using a commercial fairing mix for my next project like Bateau's quickfair, since they pre-mix it just right to be able to sand it. If you get the mix wrong, you're sanding rocks

The problem with using only microballoons is the mix, even though thick as p/b, it will sag and run as it kicks off and warms up. Next batch will be mostly microballoons until thick, then add the silica (I'm actually using ez-thick) to make it paste like. Hopefully that will prevent running and make it easier to sand.​

 

[i386]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Here's something that worked well for me when I was doing the bottom of my boat. This is what I did on the holes and other rough spots.

Spread the peanut butter and let it partially cure. Then shave off the excess with a surform tool. You won't have so much to sand when it fully cures.

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Hey Mark,

Looking good!

Belt sanders are good things! I used one on my deck and seat base sides for nice level surface. I'm so impressed with the hardtop from styrofoam to glass... It's gonna look so awesome! And Like redfury says, bring on the breakers!

 

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Here's something that worked well for me when I was doing the bottom of my boat. This is what I did on the holes and other rough spots.

Spread the peanut butter and let it partially cure. Then shave off the excess with a surform tool. You won't have so much to sand when it fully cures.

I'll give that a try, sounds like a good idea. But first the fairing put on Tuesday night needs to be sanded. Tuesday the fairing was mixed with much more glass bubbles than before. In fact, the volume of the mix doubled by the time I was done mixing it up. Had to dump it out on a hard smooth work surface to finish mixing with a spreader. Then it went on smooth, but really needed a lot of pressing to ensure it filled all the nooks and crannies. Hopefully it will sand easier than the first batches.

BTW, I checked out pre-mixed epoxy fairing. Typically runs $130 a gallon, but only has 1/3 epoxy!!!! Thats expensive stuff.

Also did some more searching the web for epoxy fairing and found a bunch of hot-rod forums where they do epoxy bodywork, or use epoxy paints, and use Bondo for the fairing. I contacted Bondo (3M corp) and asked them about using bondo as fairing over epoxy on boats. They said as long as its sanded with 80 grit, the bondo will adhere same as to bare metal. Bondo makes no chemical bond with what it is applied to, its all mechanical. So if it sticks to metal, it will stick to epoxy.

Using bondo will be a last ditch effort if I can't get the results I want from epoxy fairing.

 

[Nico2112]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Can't wait to see the hard top installed and finished

You're doing a great job!

Cheers!

 

[drewpster]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Your well above the water line so it is probably a moot point but Bondo absorbs water. It is a good product and I have used it myself but I would use care using it for wet enviroments. Again, its probably fine to use it on your top I just thought the point should be made.
I like Interlux Watertite filler. It fills well, feather edges great and it is an epoxy product that will not soak water.

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Hey, before you know it, you'll be laughing at everyone getting wet in the 3 foot breakers...

Redfury, I can vouch for that- the hardtop my dad's 23' Seaswirl Striper has kept us dry on Lake Huron in some rough seas many times.

Mark, that's an ambitious project and very well done so far. I can't wait to see how your Bayliner ends up looking cause it looks great so far. I think you are going to love that new hardtop in calm and rough seas.

The Striper actually gets a little warm under the hardtop so I think you are on to something having the windows folding down in the front. When you are trolling or idling it is nice to let a breeze in on a hot day(we get those once in a while in Michigan).

Good luck with the Bayliner!

 

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Thanks for the comments and encouragement! I really plan to use the boat late into the season. Thanksgiving should be really nice out on the water and out of the wind.

Today I was so disgusted with the whole epoxy fairing bit that I turned my attention to other details.

Cut and fit stainless steel hinges to both windows. The window opening is larger than the inner lip of the frame by about 3/4" so that I wouldn't have clearance problems. It paid off, the fit nice, and the extra clearance allow me to get them fairly symmetrically oriented and mounted. Used #6 1/2" stainless screws to attach the hinges.

This should give you an idea of how much space there is to access the bow through the window openings. The openings are about 24 x 24, but slightly trapezoid shaped. The wood post will be tossed in favor of gas pressure struts to open the windows. And yes, both windows open.

Also picked up some 3/4" quarter round PVC exterior trim. This is going to support the side sliding windows. The window channel is 1/2" wide, so I ripped the quarter round down to about 5/8 so there is a little room to adjust the window track if needed.

The trim is going to be epoxied to the top. Then the track will be screwed to the trim through the bottom of the track. The trim and track will frame the window top, front and bottom, leaving the rear open to insert the window. A rubber stopper will keep the window from sliding all the way out.

Back to the fairing.... This is absolutely ridiculous. Who's bright idea was it to tell people that epoxy fairing works? The stuff is so hard I have 36 grit in the sander and it barely makes a dent, even after going way overboard with the micro balloons. It is softer than pure epoxy, but there is no way in hell that it can ever be hand sanded to a nice smooth finished surface. It just isn't going to happen. Epoxy is great for stringers and decks, but don't use it on anything you want to fair out and look nice.

I went around and visited some of the custom body shops around here and spoke with the owners about my problem. They agreed that regular bondo is not going to work well but they were aware of the Marson Premium filler and used it over epoxy primers, plastic parts, and other difficult to fill surfaces. Two shops felt that the Marsons would give about 10 years before and differences in expansion/contraction would show.

So I placed an order for the Marson Premium Gold and also Marson Finishing Putty/Glaze (which is rated for use on epoxy). These products claim to "etch into epoxy" for good holding power. I'll let you know how it goes.

What I have done is filled the large differences in the surface with epoxy fairing, and sanded it as smooth as possable. This way, just a thin skim coat of the Marson filler will be needed to let me finish/hand block sand the sides and top for a reasonably good paintable surface. I'm not a pro with body filler, but I have made some very good auto body repairs in my time.

Hopefully the filler will be here by Labor Day, and I will get two full days of body work in on this top.

Also, I have given up on the idea of fairing out the interior too. It will be rough sanded to remove lumps and bumps, then boat headliner with 1/4" foam backing will be installed to make an nice finished look.

 

[drewpster]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

I had the same experience making my own epoxy fairing compound on the "Nostalgic" boat. Hard as hammers to sand. I wont do that again. I had good luck with Interlux Watertite filler though. And it is epoxy base. It feather edges like Bondo but you can't cut it with a cheese grater like you can Bondo. Watertite is primarily designed for under the waterline use but I used it all over my hull. Interlux also makes a fairing filler for above the waterline. But I have not used it. The watertite stuff has a "sanding window" which basically means you need to sand it ASAP after hardening. I really liked the stuff and I do not have to worry about it popping out. Its expensive but a little goes a long way.

The other side has as much filler as this side if not more and i have filler left in the can. (1 liter size can if memory serves)

It is easy to sand up to about 36 hours of curing, then gets more difficult. I sanded this repair after about a week of curing. I started with 180 on a long board then finished it with 220 all by hand. It harder than Bondo but not nearly as hard as the homemade stuff I used on the deck. Even after a week. Here is the deck in progress with homemade compound. It was a real pain!

 

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Drewpster,

Thanks for sharing your experience with epoxy. My hat is off to you for sticking with it. I don't have the time or patience to shape an incredibly hard product that was never intended to be used as a fairing material. I went through all the West System info on finishing. Basically, they tell you to use battens to apply the epoxy to the correct shape so sanding is minimized. But you can imagine how much time and effort it is to make the battens with a sharp straight edge 33 inches long.

Lucky for me, this is an above the water line application, so I'm not worried about using the high end fillers to fair out the top.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

Here is the Starboard side window frame. It was done with polyester resin and 6 oz cloth. Its been sanded with 150 grit on the power sander, then block sanded with 150, then sprayed with gray sanding primer to show the low spots, more sanding with 150, then glazing putty, and final sanding with 220 grit. This is smoooooooooth and ready for marine paint. Piece of cake compared to screwing around with the epoxy. The residual primer and spot putty are so thin you can see through it in places. That's how nice the polyester resin sands out.

 

[zach103]

Re: Project "1600 Capri Hard Top" has begun!

why not have them open down instead of up.. that way you can drive with them down at times