Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

[catfighter]

So I have decided to get another boat -- actually my wife decided and I am choosing to "honor and obey" her, per our wedding vows (at least this time)


I notice there are places where you can buy "project boats" or "project hulls." Is this a good idea for someone with limited knowledge of fiberglassing? I mean, I've done some fiberglass and I know the concepts, and I'm good with tools. That is to say, I'm confident I could do the job.

But is the effort worth it?

Here's what I'm looking for: essentially my ideal boat is a Grady-White Tournament 192 OB. But I want the option to remove the middle seats to make room for a large live well and more fishing space if there are only 2-3 people on the boat fishing. Basically a dual-console 19' that will hold 6 people comfortably but still have a relatively low hull draft.

So how much money am I actually saving buy getting a project headache -- er, I mean project hull and building it how I want it, versus retrofitting a boat ready for the water?

 

[oldschooltiller]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

It's SO hard to ignore the aluminum vs glass debate here...

I think that it's a good idea to do a rebuild on an aluminum boat first, just for the experience. This will give you at least a little better idea of the cost and work involved. Make no mistake. The cost and work involved in a glass boat will be MUCH, MUCH higher.


Now with that said, I think it depends on your budget. If you are able to buy something on the upper end of used, buy a complete useable boat.
However if on the lower end of the used boat market, you may end up buying unforeseen problems, pay a higher initial cost, and still have to replace stringers or transom. In this case BUY A PROJECT HULL.

 

[oldschooltiller]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

For me my budget wasn't going to afford a $10,000 used aluminum boat. And I didn't want payments.
I could have bought a used boat for $3500-4500, but even in that price range, in the size I was interested in, I could have been buying a boat with soft floors and transom that would have needed work. Plus I would have been paying extra $$ for accessories that I would have upgraded anyhow-so basically worthless to me. (trolling motor/depth finders)

 

[ajgraz]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

If the up-front money supply is low, the long-term time supply is high, and you are a handy type guy, go project.

Remember, ANY boat not brand-new and under warranty IS a project boat...and almost all boats under warranty are also project boats, it's just that you've already pre-paid for someone else to work on them.

Also remember, it's very much a buyer's market out there. People can hardly give away "project" boats...unless they can find a sucker.

I read on here somewhere to use the "two-out-of-three" rule; if two out of the three of: hull, interior, motor are good (or need only the most minor of work), it's worth a look. I'd modify to "three-out-of-four", and include trailer.

Oh and I doubt a 19'er will handle 6 people comfortably, unless 4 of them are Munchkins or Oompah-Loompahs.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

Oh and I doubt a 19'er will handle 6 people comfortably, unless 4 of them are Munchkins or Oompah-Loompahs.

Yeah, my 17' is rated for 7 people, but I find it crowded with 3... and 2 more feet isn't going to make that much of a difference.


Buying a project hull is much better than buying a "water ready" used fiberglass boat. A lot of the "water ready" boats are just project boats in disguise with new 1/2" decking thrown over rotten decking and stringers and new carpet installed... we see that rip-off fairly regularly on this forum.

I suggest you read as many fiberglass restoration threads as possible before jumping on a project boat or any fiberglass boat. You will learn what to look for when buying a boat, and what exactly will have to be done.

 

[oldschooltiller]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

Yeah, my 17' is rated for 7 people, but I find it crowded with 3... and 2 more feet isn't going to make that much of a difference.


Buying a project hull is much better than buying a "water ready" used fiberglass boat. A lot of the "water ready" boats are just project boats in disguise with new 1/2" decking thrown over rotten decking and stringers and new carpet installed... we see that rip-off fairly regularly on this forum.

I suggest you read as many fiberglass restoration threads as possible before jumping on a project boat or any fiberglass boat. You will learn what to look for when buying a boat, and what exactly will have to be done.

One more comment and confirmation on size of boat.
My 17' is really setup for 3 guys. IF just to put around with the family it's going to fit 5. (with flip up front jump seats that will be part of the front deck)

 

[oops!]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

dollars wise... ii is rarely worth it to do a project hull....

the costs with the motor alone are worth a good used boat.

if you want a boat, buy a good working second hand boat, and make it the way you want.

but if you want a PROJECT to work on... boats are a great project.

 

[oldschooltiller]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

dollars wise... ii is rarely worth it to do a project hull....

the costs with the motor alone are worth a good used boat.

if you want a boat, buy a good working second hand boat, and make it the way you want.

but if you want a PROJECT to work on... boats are a great project.

I disagree with you.
When comparing a completed project to a used complete boat maybe. But that used complete boat doesn't have new everything like so many projects do.
A completed project many times can and should be compared to a new boat. It won't bring the re-sale of a new (used) boat, but it will function as one.

 

[catfighter]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

oldschooltiller - I actually completed a 14' gamefisher fiberglass, at least to my liking. I wired everything and installed decks on it, and had the transom rebuilt (I didn't do it myself but had it done well enough for $200). I get complimented on it all the time.



A Tournament 19 is designed to seat 8 people, so I figure it should do 5-6 well enough (and for the most part it's going to be me, my 3-year-old son, and my wife anyway).

So how much should a good "2 out of 3" boat cost me, then? I'm assuming I can get something for $4000?


Also, I agree it's a buyer's market, but how much so? For instance if I see a boat that's $4000, should I assume they'll pounce on $3000?

Here's what I'm looking to do:



I'll keep looking and maybe I'll drop some ads or boats that I look at to see what you guys think. I appreciate the help.

 

[emoney]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

It is LARGELY a buyer's market, especially this time of the year. A lot depends on your area, of course, but there are plenty options in the $4K range. You aren't going to "profit" on a project, other than the experience and if you've done one, you realize that. Oh, there are guys that try and fool themselves by low-balling their investment, but when the real calculator is put to it, you're always going to "lose" on that venture. Oops has already said it best: if you want a boat for boating, buy one. If you want a "project" then buy a hull. And the only thing that I would add would be, "Why not buy both". Buy yourself a $3500 boat that you and momma can use now, and pick up a $500 hull/project that will satisfy your DIY needs.

Then, when you're to the point of putting the last coat of paint on it, you can always sell the other boat and buy yourself a lot more outboard than you would've ever gotten in either direction. Plus, this way you don't have any pressure to rush, because we all know it's easy to cut corners when the fish are biting or it's 95 degrees outside with no relief in sight. The "other" boat will satisfy those needs so you can take your time on the project and do it right the 1st time.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

You need to look at a used $4K 19' fiberglass boat real good before you buy it, most of these will be projects in disguise. Either the motor is going to need work or the bilge/transom will be rotting... or both. If you look long enough you may be able to find a good boat for that price, but unless you get real lucky you're going to have to look at quite a few.

For $4K you can buy a project and fix/repair it to like new considering you pay $1500 for the boat and put $2500 in it.

 

[oldschooltiller]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

Oh, there are guys that try and fool themselves by low-balling their investment, but when the real calculator is put to it, you're always going to "lose" on that venture. Oops has already said it best: if you want a boat for boating, buy one. If you want a "project" then buy a hull.

Your losing money compared to what....That was my point.

Losing money if you sell it....Probably.

How much money would you lose buying a new boat and then selling IT.


See now all of a sudden the "investment" in the project is a whole bunch better. (like I mentioned comparing complete project to new boat=a much better comparison)

 

[oldschooltiller]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

You need to look at a used $4K 19' fiberglass boat real good before you buy it, most of these will be projects in disguise. Either the motor is going to need work or the bilge/transom will be rotting... or both. If you look long enough you may be able to find a good boat for that price, but unless you get real lucky you're going to have to look at quite a few.

For $4K you can buy a project and fix/repair it to like new considering you pay $1500 for the boat and put $2500 in it.

Absolutely.

 

[catfighter]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

This is turning into a good debate.

I'm thinking if I do get a boat, it's going to be in October (2012 or 2013) -- you know, when everyone is looking for a place to store the boat they no longer want. I already have a boat and my wife will not want to go anywhere near the water until June, so that gives me a good 6-8 months to work on one over the winter.

I am leaning towards Jigngrub's logic here. Why risk blowing your budget on a boat that could likely need just as much work as a project? At least if it's a project, when it's done you know two valuable things: 1. that it doesn't need it, and 2. that it was done right.

I guess as long as I spend money on a project assuming that 0 out of 3 are good, I could end up pleasantly surprised when any of the 3 isn't bad . . . .

 

[ajgraz]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

You already have the most valuable part of the project. The wife's blessing!

 

[catfighter]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

Hey, this is in the same vein, I suppose. . . but why is it that the NADA prices for boats are so much lower than actual prices?

Take this boat, for example:

http://boats.iboats.com/1987-grady-white-19-tournament/1223049.html

The NADA says this boat should be $3050 and the outboard is $1,350. So why is this place asking for $7500? That's marking up the boat by 75%!

Hypothetically speaking, if I went to this dealer and said "I'll give you $4500 for this boat" would they take it?

 

[oldschooltiller]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

2 reasons.

1. Because a boat is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. No they wouldn't take $4500. But some other customer might offer them 6k and they 'might' take that.

2. Because of the costs of new boats. Again comparing a used boat with NO problems, or a project boat that is complete to a NEW boat the older used boat is a TREMENDOUS value even if higher than any NADA or any other listing places it.

 

[catfighter]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

2. Because of the costs of new boats. Again comparing a used boat with NO problems, or a project boat that is complete to a NEW boat the older used boat is a TREMENDOUS value even if higher than any NADA or any other listing places it.

You make a lot of sense. . . . Unfortunately I can't find any dual-console fishing boats around here yet. We'll see what emerges on craigslist in the next month near Lake Erie; maybe I'll make a trip up there when the steelhead start running.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

The best time to buy a boat is Oct-Dec., prices will be at their lowest and people will take less money for them.

 

[emoney]

Re: Project Hulls: Are They Worth the Trouble??

Ummm....oldschooltiller, where do you find new boats like this for $4k? I'm shopping in the wrong area if so, lol.

@Catfighter, your logic on that ad is "within reason", however, NADA is simply a guide and it's at it's worst when it comes to older boat because they use a basic "Percentage Depreciation" on their values. Once you get to a certain age, that's no longer "market value". However, I think that particular ad is kinda expensive, but I'm not looking at the boat up close either.

THere are lots of guys that think because they paid $1500 for a hull, spent $4000 on restoration, that the boat is now worth $5500 and when you get to these older boats, that's more popular than you'd imagine. Kinda goes back to the "if you truly add what you have invested" comment from above.

I agree about waiting a little bit longer. If you could get a frost, that sure will help the market. However, don't wait too long because condition is always going to dictate price. If a guy has a solid boat all around, anything in the price range you're looking is not going to sit around for a while. Keep us posted, btw.