Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

dubya1982

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
49
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

Btw, I have a 115 yam with a 24 ft toon and run a 15p alum and 13p stainless. Boat runs 30 mph.

So you have two different props and both run you 30? What do you use the 13 vs the 15 for? Is one better for speed and one for pulling?
 

WaterDR

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
730
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

Aluminum props tend to loose pitch a high RPMs because they are flexible. Stainless props hold their form a lot better. So, basically a stainless 13p prop is about the same as an alum 15p prop.

The stainless prop is a little faster, but bites better and has more snap off the line.
 

brotherkicksave

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
36
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but before you worry about top speed I would fill the boat with 4 or 5 people and coolers, stuff a person or two in a tube, and start and stop a few times and see how the boat performs. Does the boat get up on plane ok? What is your speed at WoT with the tuber(s) behind the boat. If you focus on top speed and prop accordingly, you may find that the boat won't tow tubers the way you want. You need to soft peddle into a prop change. But keep the dealer involved. Keep a log of your sea trials. Amount of Fuel, number of passengers, approximate equipment weight are all important. Let the dealer know of you concern right away.
 

Silver Eagle

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
852
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

That's about what I get with a 24.3 StarCraft with a 90 hp Merc two stroke. .At 5,000 rpm's
 

dubya1982

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
49
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

I went by the dealer today and complained about the prop. They looked it up and said their guy had installed the wrong prop on, the factory says to install an 11P and he put on a 10P.

He put on a Quicksilver 14x11 aluminum. I'll take it out and test it this weekend. Hopefully this gets me in the right direction.
 

WaterDR

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
730
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

I think the 11P will be an improvement, but I still don't think its enough pitch. You will get about 10% in top-end with an 11 over a 10P. IF, your motor could handle a 13P, it should should put you right into the high 20's

Only way to know is to run with it and see where your RPMs end up. If you are still getting 6400 you will definately need a 13.
 

dubya1982

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
49
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

I think the 11P will be an improvement, but I still don't think its enough pitch. You will get about 10% in top-end with an 11 over a 10P. IF, your motor could handle a 13P, it should should put you right into the high 20's

Only way to know is to run with it and see where your RPMs end up. If you are still getting 6400 you will definately need a 13.

When you say 'if the motor could handle 13P' what do you mean? How would I know that?

The manual says that the motor's optimum RPM at WOT is 5800 - 6400. The 10P was hitting the rev limiter and would max out at 6400. Based on previous posts it looks like every increase of 1 in pitch should decrease the RPM by 200. So what sweet spot should I be looking for? 6000 RPM?
 

WaterDR

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
730
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

Ok..IF, you are htting the rev limiter, the 200 rpm rule is not going to apply, because what you don't know, is what the rpms would have been had it NOT been stopped by the limiter. The other thing, is that depending on where you are in the power band on the motor, the rpm drop may not follow the 200 rule....is just a rule of thumb.

The pitch value literally means that with each revolution of the prop, the boat with travel X number of inches. So, a 10P prop will move a boat forward 10 inches with each revolution and an 13p will move the boat 13 inches. This rule assumes NO slip, or in other words, no loss in efficiency, which you will always have. The other thing that happens is that aluminum props tend to lose their shape and flatten out at higher revolutions. So a 10P prop really becomes more like a 9p or even an 8P prop if it spins fast enough. Stainless prop remain fixed and don't lose their shape.

As you increase pitch, you place more load on the motor and make make the motor work harder and the rpms will drop. This is why you don't always get more speed by changing prop.

In your case, you are hitting the limiter, so you are leaving power on the table so to speak. You know you will have the right prop, when at WOT your motor is making the most possible rpms w/o hitting the limiter. IMO, the perfect spot should be just above 6,000. Its not the pitch that matters so much, as the rpms.
 

lncoop

Vice Admiral
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
5,147
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

I agree with the Dr. I think you'll end up with a thirteen, but trial and error is the only way to dial it in. Just be sure you don't do anything with respect to RPMs to void the engine warranty. BTW, I never did say, congratulations! Hope you and your crew make lots of memories.:D
 

Far-North

Recruit
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
1
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

When you say 'if the motor could handle 13P' what do you mean? How would I know that?

The manual says that the motor's optimum RPM at WOT is 5800 - 6400. The 10P was hitting the rev limiter and would max out at 6400. Based on previous posts it looks like every increase of 1 in pitch should decrease the RPM by 200. So what sweet spot should I be looking for? 6000 RPM?

Others have been giving good advice regarding selecting a prop. One other variable to consider is engine height. Basically is you motor mounted in the correct hole? This is one of the things you will likely want to check before picking your final prop.

The link below is in reference to Mercury engines but the steps to go through to properly set up your boat and select a prop will work for your engine/boat as long as you use the RPM numbers mentioned above for your Yamaha.

Propping correctly & how to test props.....

Good luck!
 

dubya1982

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
49
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

Btw, I have a 115 yam with a 24 ft toon and run a 15p alum and 13p stainless. Boat runs 30 mph.

Ok..IF, you are htting the rev limiter, the 200 rpm rule is not going to apply, because what you don't know, is what the rpms would have been had it NOT been stopped by the limiter. The other thing, is that depending on where you are in the power band on the motor, the rpm drop may not follow the 200 rule....is just a rule of thumb.

The pitch value literally means that with each revolution of the prop, the boat with travel X number of inches. So, a 10P prop will move a boat forward 10 inches with each revolution and an 13p will move the boat 13 inches. This rule assumes NO slip, or in other words, no loss in efficiency, which you will always have. The other thing that happens is that aluminum props tend to lose their shape and flatten out at higher revolutions. So a 10P prop really becomes more like a 9p or even an 8P prop if it spins fast enough. Stainless prop remain fixed and don't lose their shape.

As you increase pitch, you place more load on the motor and make make the motor work harder and the rpms will drop. This is why you don't always get more speed by changing prop.

In your case, you are hitting the limiter, so you are leaving power on the table so to speak. You know you will have the right prop, when at WOT your motor is making the most possible rpms w/o hitting the limiter. IMO, the perfect spot should be just above 6,000. Its not the pitch that matters so much, as the rpms.

Thanks so much, that makes it much clearer. I'm starting to have a better understanding of how pitch works.

I'll take the boat out this weekend and see where we are at with the 11P and go from there. If I need to increase again I think I'll wait a few weeks and get the motor good and broke in before hand.
 

The Woo Woo Kid

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
123
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

Don't forget your warranty. I know of a guy who took his new boat out and ignored the breakin restrictions and run it above them. He had a motor issue during the warranty period and the factory wouldn't cover it. The motor's computer ratted him out to the dealer. Yep, it's all recorded by the motor's computer.
 

brotherkicksave

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
36
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

Again. If you are tuning the boat for top speed, it may not be able to pull a tuber up. Imagine a 11P prop as first gear on your bicycle..12P prop as 2nd gear. 13P as 3rd and so on. If you prop (or gear) for top speed, you may not be able to start under load (with gear, people, fuel, and a tuber behind the boat. Take it from me, I've been there and done that. I over propped and had to go back to the dealer and beg them to re-prop the engine after 3 months of struggling to get the boat up on plane with tubers behind the boat.
 

Bart Man

Recruit
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
5
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

I have a 24' Bentley with a Mercury 115 4S EFI and I can hit 27 mph. The dealer started me with a 14" X 11P and I had to go to a 14" X 13P. I still can hit the max RPM of 6400, so I am going to try a 14" X 15P next. I do not have strakes, two logs, but it is underskinned which might add a mph or two on my results.
 

dubya1982

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
49
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

I know this thread is aging, but I have some results and was hoping to resurrect the thread.

We finally got the boat out on the water again with the 11P prop. When it was just the wife and me we were able to get it up to 24 MPH, but we hit the rev limiter at 75% throttle, so we were leaving a lot on the table. Then we loaded the boat up with people and did a little cruising. We had a full load (I mean full) and were getting about 14 MPH max.

I am going to try out a 13" pitch and see what the results are.

Should I buy the prop myself or do you all think the dealer has the obligation to change it for me? When I complained the first time they looked in the book that came from Bentley and changed the prop out to match the specs that Bentley puts out. I'm not sure if they'll change it again or not.
 

WaterDR

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
730
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

How many rpms were you running when this happened?

I really think you have teh wrong prop still. You need more pitch.

I would expect your boat to run 26 to 30 mph lightly loaded and probably north of 20 mph with a heavy load. You should be doing 25 to 26 with 5 or 6 people on it.
 

dubya1982

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
49
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

How many rpms were you running when this happened?

I really think you have teh wrong prop still. You need more pitch.

I would expect your boat to run 26 to 30 mph lightly loaded and probably north of 20 mph with a heavy load. You should be doing 25 to 26 with 5 or 6 people on it.

We were maxing out at 6400 rpm, which is where the limiter kicks in. We would hit the limit at about 75% throttle. If I backed it off to half throttle we were cruising at about 18 mph and running 6000 rpm. That was with the light load. When we had the boat with a heavy (and I mean heavy) load we were doing much less speed, but still hitting the limiter around 75% of throttle.
 

rrhodes

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
636
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

I think you need a 13p at least. My 25TT with a Honda 115 running a 14x13p hits 27mph Loaded with 4 adults, 2 kids and a cooler. 29mph with just me.
 

Lurch77

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
129
Re: Purchased our new toon. Have some beginner questions.

I also think a 13P is the next logical step, and probabl;y the right prop. My 20' with a 75hp engine and a 14x13P gets me to 22-24mph lightly loaded.
 
Top