Putting Foam in your boat?

wambs8

Seaman
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
69
Re: Putting Foam in your boat?

My 2 cents

The Coast Guard states that the main reason to have foam flotation is so that if the boat capsizes you have something to hang on to while you are waiting for rescue. Having said that, you have a 15 foot boat that you probably wont be or shouldn't be taking very far from shore. I would suggest leaving it out. Just make sure you have all safety equipment and a good bilge pump.

Dave
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
1,058
Re: Putting Foam in your boat?

I am thinking you don't have a Princecraft. Seems everything I've seen says they are aluminum. Anyhow, I'm with the leave out the foam/flotation crowd.
 

Ike-110722

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
408
Re: Putting Foam in your boat?

Geez here we go again;

first let me say, I am retired USCG and spent 25 years in Boating Safety, 20 of those working with boat manufacturers. All during that time I was involved with testing boats for flotation. I have also been involved with research on problems with foam in boats.

1. Yes your boat was required to have flotation. NOTICE I said flotation, not foam. Foam is just one means of achieving flotation, and is the preferred method by boat manufacturers, but is not required. There are other alternatives. But if you like foam and it will do the job by all means do it.

2. Just dumping foam in the boat will not accomplish much. The boat may float but it may not float in a level upright attitude. The whole point is for the boat to float upright and provide a rescue platform. Also most boats with level flotation alllow you to stay in the boat and the top half of your body, the part most vulnerable to hypothermia, is out of the water. Some, like Boston Whaler float so high the engien can still run with the boat fully swamped.

3. Yes there have been problems with foam absorbing water. All of those problems have been with two part pour or spray foam. The worst has been with foam made using the bucket method (mix it in a bucket and pour it in) Machine made block foam has NEVER had these problems. Why? Because block foam is made under very tightly controlled conditions. Two part is not and bad things happen.

4. Enclosing foam in plastic is not bad for the foam! Some manufacturers do this and they have never had problems. In fact it helps to preserve the foam. If you do this you must allow the foam to fully expand and cool (foam heats up, what is called exotherm, during the expansion) before you fully enclose it.

5. I have always recommended using block foam. Yes it is a little more difficult to get but you will not have the same problems. And if you encase the foam in platic or glass it in you can use any type of foam. If you glass it in you must use epoxy resin. Polyester melts it.

6. The foam that is most commonly used is polyurethane because it is not affected by gasoline, solvents, cleaners and other corrosive chemicals. But if you encase foam so that these things, plus water, can not get to it, you can use plain old styrofoam. I have used this in my boat and many boat manufacturers use it, primarily in jon boats and other small boats where the foam is not in the bilge. You can buy it at Home Depot or any hardware store. Just ask for insulation foam.

7. You should do some reading first. Look at Safety Standards for Backyard Boatbuilders http://newboatbuilders.com/docs/backyardboatbuilders.pdf Also a page on flotation http://newboatbuilders.com/pages/flot2.html and http://newboatbuilders.com/pages/flotdiag.html

8. 2lb density foam weighs 2 lbs per cubic foot. This means it will support 60.4 lbs of dry weight. 4 lb density foam weighs 4 lbs per cubic foot and will support 58.4 lbs dry weight. Either will support a lot more submerged or swamped weight. You need to figure out how much flotation you need and where it should be placed on the boat. If you put it all in the bottom, the boat will float great, upside down. It needs to be distributed so that the boat floats level. Essentially you need flotation for the boat itself, for the engine, and flotation for the people. The pages I suggested will show you how to do that. None of it is rocket science.

Alternatives: (don't laugh all of these have been used by professionals) Air chambers, bladders, plastic bottles (sealed), ping pong balls, pool noodles, balsa, beer cans (sealed) and anything that will enclose and contain air. Use your imagination.

I agree with those who say the compartments should have drainage. There should be limber holes that allow water to drain aft to where the bilge pump and the boat plug are. If the water can't get out you are in a lot more trouble than just soggy foam.

By the way cutting closed cell foam that is made properly is not a problem. the only exposed cells are the ones cut. Badly made foam is not necessarily closed cell. If there is too much heat the cells expand too fast and the surface is too thin. It breaks easily and does not bond well to the other cells, so water permeates easily. If there is not enough heat it doesn't expand, you get something like bread dough and it doesn't support anything. This is why I recommend block foam. All the cells are just about perfect. We tested machine made foam for two years, submerged in water, and it absorbed 2/10% of it's weight of water and that was all in the first month. That is about one drop of water for a cubic foot of foam.
 

westexasrepublic

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
524
Re: Putting Foam in your boat?

bla bla bla, reading is for the birds

more pics of my restoration in my signature link.

60032_1542815202635_1002607648_31597219_665273_n.jpg


65227_1553500829769_1002607648_31620110_3880901_n.jpg
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
1,058
Re: Putting Foam in your boat?

Peter...Great info, especially #3 since (I'm willing to bet) most DIYs here use the two part foam. This is also great info in that there's a bunch of newbies here (like me) that have never seen this. Of course, all the math needed to determine engine size, flotation, and other calculations has my head swimming (no pun intended) and I think the easy way is to replace the foam the manufacturer installed to begin with...most if not all of it will be there when you start your restoration. If there is no foam (the PO removed it) you might want to have second thoughts about buying the wreck unless it's a classic. If not a classic, it's just another boat and your time could be spent better elsewhere. Like my son said the other, "Why are you spending your free time with this crap when you could buy a good used boat in working condition, and get your tail out there fishing?" He may have a point. I like the block foam idea and with this internet machine, it's easy to find.


Steve
 

Ike-110722

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
408
Re: Putting Foam in your boat?

Thank him for his service. I am sure he will be an outstanding NFO and make a valuable contribution to our nation's security.
 

Yacht Dr.

Vice Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
5,581
Re: Putting Foam in your boat?

Like my son said the other, "Why are you spending your free time with this crap when you could buy a good used boat in working condition, and get your tail out there fishing?" He may have a point. I like the block foam idea and with this internet machine, it's easy to find.Steve

Because you can rebuild..we have the knowledge..we have the technology..we have the..erm..mebby not all the Money..

How would the 6 million doller man ever be possible with this kinda thinking :) ( For the ones in that age group hehe ;) ).

YD.
 

MountainManMyke

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
88
Re: Putting Foam in your boat?

I have been reading on the "newboatbuilders" page and I did the calculations for my 15ft tri-hull and integrated the 80hp motor. I am required to put 8 cubic feet of foam to support the boat and an additional 4 cubic feet to support my motor..... Does that sound right? 12 cubic feet of foam in total, if so.... basically my whole boat has to be foamed then. Let me know if this sounds right or I messed up on my calculations. Thanks
 

Cadwelder

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
1,780
Re: Putting Foam in your boat?

When you spread it out under a deck it doesn't take up a much as you might think. Example a section that is 24" x 4" x 96" isn't that big but calculates to 5.3 cubic feet. If you have section like that on each side you've got close to you 12 right there.
 

Ike-110722

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
408
Re: Putting Foam in your boat?

Well I can't say they are right without running the calculations myself but they don't look that far off. Did you use the factors for the various materials?

One other thing, with outboards there is a Dry weight, submerged weight and a swamped weight. Make sure you use the right one. Submerged is fully underwater. Swamped weight is only about 75% under water and is the correct value.
 

MountainManMyke

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
88
Re: Putting Foam in your boat?

Okay, I went to home depot and bought three sheets of insulation foam. I basically cut the foam out to fit the contour of my hull and it is from the back all the way to the front. My floor will fit nicely on top of the foam now and there is not much room for anymore. My total calculation is 9800inches cubed. Is that going to be enough to keep my boat afloat? I have no more room for anymore foam.... Thanks
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
71,356
Re: Putting Foam in your boat?

My total calculation is 9800inches cubed.

Ayuh,.... Convert that to Cubic Feet, 'n multiply by 63lbs...
Minus the weight of the foam.. That'll be the rating of yer flotation...
Then add the boat, 'n it's contents, the space it displaces, not it's weight, to find Total flotation....
 

Ike-110722

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
408
Re: Putting Foam in your boat?

Hard to say without running the numbers but 5.7 cubic feet is a lot and will support over 340 lbs dry weight. I would have to know the weight of the boat, the size engine (O/B hp) and how many persons. But it seems for a 15 ft boat (i'm assuming it's aluminum?) that's a lot.
 

MountainManMyke

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
88
Re: Putting Foam in your boat?

My boat is a 15ft fiberglass tri hull with a 1970 Mercury 80hp motor (245lbs). The boat has 3 seats in it. Thanks
 

Ike-110722

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
408
Re: Putting Foam in your boat?

How much does the boat weigh? Ball park is ok.
Does it have a capacity label? What is the Maximum Weight Capacity on the label and maximum persons capacity in pounds.
 

HOOKED.UP

Seaman
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
52
Re: Putting Foam in your boat?

When did our society get so bloody scared, we had to worry about foam and flotation.
My first boat was built in 1904. In 1967 I took this old boat to Cape Raoul. With a 3 hp Johnson outboard.

I did not know any better at that time and my dad surely punished me for my foolishness. What did I do wrong by him. ? I did not tell him where I was going that day.

I have recently rescued that old 12 foot dinghy from a play ground. It will never float again, but it will die with me.
I still have the old Johnson. It is totally stuffed, but it was my Dad's motor and I have great memories.

I go back to my first sentence.
When did we get so bloody weak, we need instructions to live.

Paul.
Bit of a rave here.
 

ezmobee

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
23,767
Re: Putting Foam in your boat?

You're welcome to do what you'd like Paul but if I stuff mine into a wave I'd rather not have it sink like a stone. I'd rather have something to hold to until help arrives, and I'd rather not have to pay salvage costs or environmental fines.
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
1,058
Re: Putting Foam in your boat?

I hear a lot of talk about the "must have" foam in boats under 20 feet in length. I can't help but wonder however why boats over 20 feet don't have the same USCG requirement. It's not like they will sink any slower than a small boat. So, if someone here in this vast internet machine has an answer, I would appreciate it being shared amongst us that are less informed. :)
 
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