QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

[jbjennings]

Re: QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

Thanks Guy,
Does that mean the magnet is 90 degrees off on my '53 flywheel for the '52 block? If so, to be honest, I may have used the flywheel off my ?? bucaneer 5hp instead of the proper '53 QD-14 flywheel. At least, I'm hoping the problem is this idiotic screw-up 'cause I can easily correct that. The 2 flywheels were laying side by side and I picked the bigger one. IF not, can a machine shop handle cutting a new flywheel key, and do I have to change the cam, too?
Thanks,
JBJ

 

[guy74]

Re: QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

You said that the key in the crank was 90 degrees off between the two motors. That would make it seem that you need a flywheel and cam with the key in the proper place. Next question I have is, Do you have the point cam from the QD 13? If you do use it to figure out if they are "clocked" different.
Unless there is somthing different on outboards from the motors I work with, the relationship between the timing of the magnets in the flywheel passing the coils onthe stator, and the cam opening the points is very critical. So if you have spark now the pieces are eveidently matched to each other. If you move one you have to move the other( Flywheel & Point cam), otherwise you can try moving the whole stator assembly around 90 degrees, if thats possible. I imagine you can't move it that far without running out of slack in the wires. Most machine shop can recut the keyways for you, I could recut them for you if you were close by, but I'm sure you can find someone locally to do it for you.
Goodluck,
Brian

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

Let's go back to go here! The flywheel key also positions the breaker point cam. Position the flywheel key at the rubbing block on the breaker point, set point at .o20, do this on both set's of points, make sure the cam is facing up. This puts the magneto in correct time. Make sure you do not cross plug wires. If that flywheel fits the taper on the crank, it is the correct wheel. Cam up, points .020, coil #1 to top cylinder, coil #2 to bottom cylinder, the magneto has to be correct. If the flywheel key were not in place, you could do none of the above. The only way then to get the engine out of time to a drastic point is to cross the plug wires.

 

[guy74]

Re: QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

Let's go back to go here! The flywheel key also positions the breaker point cam. Position the flywheel key at the rubbing block on the breaker point, set point at .o20, do this on both set's of points, make sure the cam is facing up. This puts the magneto in correct time. Make sure you do not cross plug wires. If that flywheel fits the taper on the crank, it is the correct wheel. Cam up, points .020, coil #1 to top cylinder, coil #2 to bottom cylinder, the magneto has to be correct. If the flywheel key were not in place, you could do none of the above. The only way then to get the engine out of time to a drastic point is to cross the plug wires.

Did you read it all? He's got a QD 14 flywheel and point cam on a QD 13 powerhead. He has figured out that the key on the QD 13 crank points 90 degrees off at TDC compared to the key on the QD 14 crank at TDC. He either has to get the correct parts or modify what he has.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

Well, I didn't have the wrong flywheel on it, the key isn't broken, and the cam is identical to my QD-14. I double checked and there is a difference in the position of the flywheel key at TDC on the top piston between the QD-14 and the QD-13. The only solution I can see is to try to break both powerheads apart and try to switch the QD14 crank in the QD-13 block. Then my armature plate, etc. would fit, right? I have never cracked open a crankcase before. What do you guys think about this. I know my QD-14 powerhead has a bad top piston and wrist pin, and bad cylinders. Could the crank in the qd14 still be good?
Can any of you pro's recommend a fix without spending any more money on this thing? If I try this should I try to buy some rings and rering the pistons just for security while the block is open?? Any other suggestions? What I'm worried about is if I get the QD-13 armature plate I still won't be where I want to be because I won't be able to use my tiller throttle or cowl, since the QD-13 has a throttle on the armature plate. And I'd probably need to buy the qd13 flywheel, too.
Thanks for the help,
JBJ

 

[wbeaton]

Re: QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

That sounds like a whole lot of extra work, JBJ. I don't have my manuals in front of me, but I'm pretty sure the internals are the same on both motors. The armature is definately different and is probably the problem although I wouldn't have thought it would make a serious difference considering I have a newer style mag converted to fit my QD-10. I'll look into it a bit more when I get home tonight.

Have you tried running it by squirting a little gas in the cylinders? Those are fussy carbs.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

Yeah, WB, I've tried the squirting gas thing and all it will do it "afterfire" out the exhaust ports on both cylinders if it does anything. I'm almost positive the crank key position has to be different on the QD-13 and QD-14 although I never expected this and keep second guessing myself. I just can't see a solution other than switching cranks. I don't think all my QD-14 stuff will work if that key position isn't right. I'll wait and think about it a little more. I wish someone could verify that the flywheel key position is different on the 2 models. I know there are 2 unexpected differences between the 2 I've found already, for example: no boss on the cylinder for the shoulder bolt for the shift lever if you're mounting controls, crazy pipe fitting on the bottom of the block for the water flow (different base design in block).
Thanks for the help,
JBJ

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

I would see if I could find the correct ignition assembly for the powerhead that you want to use. You can probably find one for not a lot of money and it seems like trying to swap cranks between two motors that obviously have some differences, is asking for more headaches.

 

[JB]

Re: QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

As I mentioned above I would first explore the possibility of mounting the stator 90* from where it is now.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

Well,
I tried to listen to your advice and ckeck the plate out. It had another set of holes for the throttle cam so I shifted it one set back. Did the same with the thing the spark advance attachment although I had to file the holes larger to get a tiny bit of slack to make the screws fit. Then put 'er back together and did succeed in getting it cranked. I did get it to run but not correctly. I think the carb is messed up somehow so I'm going to try to clean it really good and give it another shot tomorrow.
Thanks so much for your advice, your wisdom is much appreciated.
Will let you know what happens tomorrow.
JBJ

 

[guy74]

Re: QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

Glad to hear you got it running, I'd have never guessed that there would be enough slack in the wires to turn it that far.
Goodluck,
Brian

 

[samo_ott]

Re: QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

Well JBJ, that's great you got it running. This has been one of the most active threads in the past few days!

 

[jbjennings]

Re: QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

Well, she's not running right by a longshot, but at least I got to hear the danged "new" powerhead run. I am still worried that the timing is not right, but at least it's a start. I am really pleased with the compression the fit of the base seals I had to make myself. If I could get it to running right I'd really be happy. I'm still thinking I may have to crack the powerheads and switch cranks but I'm scared to since i've never done it.
Later,
JBJ

 

[samo_ott]

Re: QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

Switching the cranks could open up other problems... I'd try to avoid it!

 

[guy74]

Re: QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

I would've just figured out how far it is off, and rebroached the keyways in the flywheel and cam to make it right. But I can do that at home, with just a little work.

 

[MikDee]

Re: QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

Do these motors have a movable breaker point plate, for advancing timing? If so, is the breaker plate at it's starting point, (the beginning) when you're checking your static timing?

 

[jbjennings]

Re: QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

Guys,
After an embarrassingly long amount of hours and trial and error stupidity, here's where I am. I moved the spark advance lever attachment one set of holes over, and did the same with the throttle cam plate. Cleaned the carb several times and fiddled with different floats. I feel very confident the float is set right. Then, I finally get it to running and idling but not running right and find out one plug isn't firing (keep in mind I've got new coils and condensors, but not new points. Well I then find out that the points to the bad wire are burnt ( I guess that's what you'd call it) so I sanded it down past the burnt stuff, regapped it and now have fire to both. So I crank it again, much better! I then put everything back and have to take the dang cowls off about a dozen times trying to get the shift rod adjusted right, highspeed adj. lever set right, etc.
Finally, I tested it out and it ran but only about 1/2 to 2/3's the power it should have (didn't plane it).
I have also tried to synchronize the throttle plate and timing cam plate. So I've pretty much fiddled with everything I can think of. Does anyone have any ideas as to what I might look at next? The high speed needle does seem to keep a good adj., and the low speed does have an effect, but not nice and smooth/obvious like my QD-16 and QD-17. It does idle pretty nicely, though. I'm reaching the end of my rope on this darned thing. It has such a nice lower unit and the "new" QD-13 powerhead has 80 and 85 lbs. of compression so I feel like it should be fixable if I can just find the gremlin. Any ideas would be appreciated. I'm very absent-minded so feel free to point out the obvious. I'm to the point of letting the QD-16 and 17 be my new favorite 10's.
Thanks,
JBJennings

 

[F_R]

Re: QD-14 backfiring, won't crank ???

Edit: Didn't see that we are on page 2 of this thread. Deleting my post.