Question for you electricians

[rbh]

Re: Question for you electricians

OK, so I see that the neutral and the ground busbar in the breaker box have a chassis ground but what I kinda wanna know is that when you put out your ground rods for the earth return circuit (potential being even and all) much like the GFI plug in your bathroom/kitchen/where ever) your panel should shunt a lightning strike/over load to your earth ground to protect the circuits in the home.

yes, no?

 

[rockyrude]

Re: Question for you electricians

Where I'm at, the breaker box is not shunted, a lightning strike will kill stuff. It is only new code now to GFCI the breaker box.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Question for you electricians

The operation of a GFCI has nothing to do with the ground at the circuit breaker box.

If you are worried about lightning strikes, there is a lot more than just a good earth ground at the circuit breaker box to be taken into account. The voltage surge will be on all the lines, not just the ground.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Question for you electricians

Where I'm at, the breaker box is not shunted, a lightning strike will kill stuff. It is only new code now to GFCI the breaker box.

You are probably referring to voltage suppression at the circuit breaker box in regards to lightning, not GFCI.

 

[rockyrude]

Re: Question for you electricians

I guess I didn't understand the question then.

 

[rbh]

Re: Question for you electricians

I guess I didn't understand the question then.

I guess I am in left field myself, UGH
I was always under the impression that when a circuit became shorted/unbalaned'??? that the GFI shunted the power to the ground leg there by removing power from the plug (hair drier in the tub situation)

 

[bigdee]

Re: Question for you electricians

I guess I didn't understand the question then.

No need to understand and it has nothing to do with your OP. It is perfectly legal to have 2 prong outlets if a ground cannot be easily obtained and you install a GFCI...if you need a grounded outlet the code allows you to use a earth ground...it does not have to be run back to the panel in situations like yours......and most important is you will be much safer than you are now!

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Question for you electricians

I guess I am in left field myself, UGH
I was always under the impression that when a circuit became shorted/unbalaned'??? that the GFI shunted the power to the ground leg there by removing power from the plug (hair drier in the tub situation)

Look at the picture on page 3
http://personal.cha.bellsouth.net/j/o/johngd/files/rv/gfi.pdf

Shows how ground is not even used.

 

[bigdee]

Re: Question for you electricians

I guess I am in left field myself, UGH
I was always under the impression that when a circuit became shorted/unbalaned'??? that the GFI shunted the power to the ground leg there by removing power from the plug (hair drier in the tub situation)

It does not shunt anything...it opens the circuit.......a shunt would trip your branch circuit breaker not the GFCI

 

[rbh]

Re: Question for you electricians

Good Q+A guys, learned something today, sorry for the "MINI HIJACK" Rocky.

 

[rockyrude]

Re: Question for you electricians

No biggie, this is how we all learn.

 

[levittownnick]

Re: Question for you electricians

OK, so I see that the neutral and the ground busbar in the breaker box have a chassis ground but what I kinda wanna know is that when you put out your ground rods for the earth return circuit (potential being even and all) much like the GFI plug in your bathroom/kitchen/where ever) your panel should shunt a lightning strike/over load to your earth ground to protect the circuits in the home.

yes, no?

NO! Things are very mixed up here, Earth ground is not going to protect against lightning and is nothing like the GFI in the bathroom/kitchen/where ever. The Earth ground provides a reference for the voltage system brought into the house so that this voltage does not float hundreds or thousands of volts above ground. I know that this statement may be confusing but a full explanation is beyound what I am prepaired to try. As others have said, a GFI works by comparing the current supplied to the current returned. If the supply or the return are not equal, current has found an alternate path and it is possible that this path is through a person (as when a person is getting a shock to ground). When this current reaches a pre-set value (5 +/- 1mA) the GFI should trip. Note that the GFI will not limit this current in any way other than to initiate a trip (if it if functional). A second point that is not often mentioned is that a GFI cannot and does not detect a person receiving a shock from Line to Neutral (across the line), A GFI also does not protect from excessive current (over-loads).

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Question for you electricians

NO! Things are very mixed up here,

RBH had a question. He wasn't stating facts.

Talking about things getting mixed up

In some switched circuits (where the fixture (ceiling light for example) has power brought directly to the fixture, a 2-wire (1-black & 1-white) run is brought to a switch. This switch properly has 1-black and 1-white wire connections. That white wire is live (hot-wire).

A white wire is never used as a switched hot...never. When you wire a switch, a switch will never have a white on it. A black wire is connected to the input of a switch and a black or other non white color is used as the output...never white.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Question for you electricians

Talking about things getting mixed up
A white wire is never used as a switched hot...never. When you wire a switch, a switch will never have a white on it. A black wire is connected to the input of a switch and a black or other non white color is used as the output...never white.

Depends on the code in effect.
You can do that here Bruce, and I'd expect in some other jurisdictions as well.

 

[foodfisher]

Re: Question for you electricians

Yes, I see it all the time here. The white has black tape on it though. Legal? I don't know.

 

[rockyrude]

Re: Question for you electricians

You guys must have some seriously messed up codes if you are allowed to switch to low side of the line.

 

[NYBo]

Re: Question for you electricians

Yes, I see it all the time here. The white has black tape on it though. Legal? I don't know.

I know that used to be permissible by code, but I don't know if it still is. I don't know how else you could run a switch leg with standard non-metallic cable (14-2).

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Question for you electricians

You guys must have some seriously messed up codes if you are allowed to switch to low side of the line.

Read the posts....
You are not switching

to low side of the line.

Just a switch branch...using 14/2 NMD-7..... happens all the time.

 

[bigdee]

Re: Question for you electricians

I know that used to be permissible by code, but I don't know if it still is. I don't know how else you could run a switch leg with standard non-metallic cable (14-2).

This is allowed by NEC in exception 2 of 200-7
Section 200-7. The general rule is that the colors white or gray can be used only for the grounded conductor. Section 200-7 Exception 1 permits a conductor with white or gray insulation to be used as the ungrounded (hot) conductor if re-identified with a color other than white, gray, or green.
"EXCEPTION 2 permits the white or gray conductor to be used for feeds to switches and travelers without re identification".

 

[rockyrude]

Re: Question for you electricians

Bad typing on my part, was supposed to be "switch the low side"