Question on foam

[produceguy]

Re: Question on foam

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=454460

Check out Jays thread. It will tell you all you need to know.

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Question on foam

Jays is a good thread for how to's on foam along with several others, including the Sticky at the start of this section. You will find a lot of different opinions on foam.
As for sealing the foam, you can use any water proof sealer, you can even just use paint.

Good luck with the project.

Bob

 

[1badbrd]

Re: Question on foam

thank you everone. I need the help. I was in the mix of taking a job that kept me at home or a job out of state for a year (military) so i wanted to do a semi quick fix, but i may take the job that keep sme at home which will give me a lot more time over the winter to work on the boat. I still need to research how much is involved with pulling the engine and outdrive and really investing time to recontruct the wood work. Decision decision. For a cheap first boat i just dont know how deep i want to get into this but i'm going to do as much as i can without going too far and have to pay for someone to finsih the project

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Question on foam

Good luck with the choice, it's never easy. My project has been on hold for about a year now. Hope to be back on it in a few months.

regards
Bob

 

[1badbrd]

Re: Question on foam

Well after more digging i found what i didnt want to find a pool of water under my foam. It looks like the transom is also wet but still has good wood color so cross my finger as i dig further its not a total loss. I dont have space/funds/time/equipment to take the engine out and drive

 

[oops!]

Re: Question on foam

this thread is soooo far off the rails.....

lets get you on track.

foam that is wet on the top is also wet on the bottom.
we foam against wood will rot it.

what you are doing now is about a 15 minit job that has lasted for days.....

take the core samples of the foam....all the way to the hull (that you have just done.) If water is in there and the foam is wet.....It all comes out.
It will not dry out....Ever.

After the foam is out......Then you can take core samples of the lower transom and stringers....Use a drill bit with tape set at the depth you want to go to .......Drill into the stiringer and transom........Wet...ok....Wet and Dark......Rot.
Rot means removal/replacement.

Foam in a hull is mostly for flotation but it also has structural value up to 10 %. the way to tell if the foam is structural....is to feel the flex of the glass with the foam removed.....if its Super solid.....the go blue panel......If it flexes.......go pour in....(you can add a layer of glass to the inner hull strengthening the hull.....then go foam board....but you will be adding weight).

i know what you are doing......and why......
You wanted a quick inspection of some "troublesome" areas...(you thought you could just patch it up)...did some investigation and found what you didnt want to see.......now you are looking for a quick way to fix it.....there arent none......
if you are rot....its a full gut....if its just wet......strip ALL the wet foam.....(foam gets wet on the bottom first) then dry the boat.

If the stringers and transom are just wet.....not rot....you can dry them with a big honkin fam and warm air...let sit for two weeks. then re glass.

but......that only depends on when you caught the rot. early or late.

the two part pour in foam is purchased at any fibreglass shop. it is kinda spendy.......but depending on the hull....it is well worth it.

btw....what are we workin on here and what year?

cheers
oops

p.s. i dont mean this post to come off sharp, or mean.......i want this post to educate you so you can stop spinning your wheels and go fishin asap.

 

[1badbrd]

Re: Question on foam

Oops, not harsh at all. I need strict guidance when i comes to first time projects. I'm working on 1998 Bayliner Capri 2050LS. I work my way from the aft towards the bow and took out all foam. You were right foam on top means foam on bottom. I found pools of water in a certain section of the frame. I work my up towards the bow untill i found no more water which was just under the seats. I have pulled almost all the wood in the area and waiting for parts to dry a little more so i can remove as chunks and not shavings. The transom is wet but still natural wood color. I'm going to cut away more fiberglass towards the center of the transom and inspect.

If wet but not dark looking i'm going to let dry as much as possible and inspect again with the core method.

I can not tell where the source of water was coming from. Only certain areas were totally rotten and other were wet. It looks like the bulk of water was in between two stringers and weird part was the stringers were not fiberglassed in the middle of each other (were the water was and most of the rot) and fiberglassed on the opposite sides so there was some water but not rot (fiberglassed).

I have found the pour foam Aeromarine or US Composites ( i will look local also). I have worked with fiberglass before so i will fiberglass any and all new pieces that i replace all sides. I plan on putting an epoxy over the new floor from bow to aft and replace the carpet as a snap on and certain areas of use that was standing water wont sit in the carpet.

I wish i knew were the water came from either crack or hole (cant see any) or just standing water over time that found its way throught the aged floor?

If i get to the transom i need to find the proper way to remove enigne and transom (or have shop remove it) look for space to store it and do what i'm doing to the transom. I need to look at cost of engine removal and install when i'm done fixing the rot

i appreciate all the help. I'm a handy guy but need specific and detailed guidance.

 

[zopperman]

Re: Question on foam

Oops, not harsh at all. I need strict guidance when i comes to first time projects. I'm working on 1998 Bayliner Capri 2050LS. I work my way from the aft towards the bow and took out all foam. You were right foam on top means foam on bottom. I found pools of water in a certain section of the frame. I work my up towards the bow untill i found no more water which was just under the seats. I have pulled almost all the wood in the area and waiting for parts to dry a little more so i can remove as chunks and not shavings. The transom is wet but still natural wood color. I'm going to cut away more fiberglass towards the center of the transom and inspect.

If wet but not dark looking i'm going to let dry as much as possible and inspect again with the core method.

I can not tell where the source of water was coming from. Only certain areas were totally rotten and other were wet. It looks like the bulk of water was in between two stringers and weird part was the stringers were not fiberglassed in the middle of each other (were the water was and most of the rot) and fiberglassed on the opposite sides so there was some water but not rot (fiberglassed).

I have found the pour foam Aeromarine or US Composites ( i will look local also). I have worked with fiberglass before so i will fiberglass any and all new pieces that i replace all sides. I plan on putting an epoxy over the new floor from bow to aft and replace the carpet as a snap on and certain areas of use that was standing water wont sit in the carpet.

I wish i knew were the water came from either crack or hole (cant see any) or just standing water over time that found its way throught the aged floor?

If i get to the transom i need to find the proper way to remove enigne and transom (or have shop remove it) look for space to store it and do what i'm doing to the transom. I need to look at cost of engine removal and install when i'm done fixing the rot

i appreciate all the help. I'm a handy guy but need specific and detailed guidance.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=496010

low cost engine removal ^ glad to hear you took out the foam. You can also use blue/pink foam insulation like I did. available at box stores... cheaper than pour in foam.

 

[1badbrd]

Re: Question on foam

forgot to ask what kind of density are people using to replace the foam. I kinda like the pour form versus the board. Feel it would give more structural support to the boat

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Question on foam

3-4 lb foam if my memory serves me

YD.

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Question on foam

2 lb is usually enough but 3 or 4 is better.

forgot to ask what kind of density are people using to replace the foam. I kinda like the pour form versus the board. Feel it would give more structural support to the boat

 

[oops!]

Re: Question on foam

I can not tell where the source of water was coming from. Only certain areas were totally rotten and other were wet. It looks like the bulk of water was in between two stringers and weird part was the stringers were not fiberglassed in the middle of each other (were the water was and most of the rot) and fiberglassed on the opposite sides so there was some water but not rot (fiberglassed).

bud.....this is really weird.........we need pics of this specific area. b-liners were foam glassed stringers.......even if the foam got wet in the stringers....the glass Was the stringer.

that was standing water wont sit in the carpet.

if you see standing water ANYWHERE in a boat.........Its wrong.

I wish i knew were the water came from either crack or hole (cant see any) or just standing water over time that found its way throught the aged floor?

most water intrusion is caused from coming in under the rub rail. gallons bud. However.......the great thing about foam in the hull......is that it acts like a kid with his finger in the dyke. (if you have a hole in the hull.....the foam will stop the gushing....but not the seepage )! holes in the hull are easy to spot.....just climb underneath.....and look for the gellcoat to be really whacked.....usually you can see the broken glass thru the gellcoat.

If i get to the transom i need to find the proper way to remove enigne and transom (or have shop remove it) look for space to store it and do what i'm doing to the transom. I need to look at cost of engine removal and install when i'm done fixing the rot.

the engine removal is really easy.....far more easer than in a car. remove the drive.....6 bolts. 4 bolts for the motor.....and all the electrical.....(not much) our i/o forums have details. you can do it ....you just need a hoist.

********

i appreciate all the help. I'm a handy guy but need specific and detailed guidance.

************

hey guys........(the regular iboaters).......we need to figure out what the poster is really asking and what he is doing.....or wants to do.....never mind the post heading.....what does he want?

in this case.....bad brd was doing an exploratory rip......his question was foam.....but what he really wanted to know ...was why is there soft spots in my deck?......and how do i fix them?. then he asked.....is this water on top of the foam...ok?

we gotta see thru the posters questions.

you guys know i have all the greatest respect for you all....but there have been some big hitters on this thread......and we all missed it......

i am as guilty as most of whipping thru threads and not really reading everything.....just to get the question answered. but we really missed the point of this one.

i didn't respond before, because the number of replies was big....(i usually go for the low replies or zero. just so everybody gets helped).....if there is lots of replies.....i assume the poster is getting helped.

We, as iboaters ....that have been helped by this forum....and have been there done that......must put our selves in the place of someone that has just ripped open a hull for the first time...and see thru what the poster wants.....and answer what he is really asking.

to the big posters here......(you all know i respect you and call you my good friends) we really missed the bus on this one.

cheers my friends
oops

 

[oops!]

Re: Question on foam

btw.....bliners foam is structural, and the foam panels will not really work in a bliner.

you can re pour with 2,3,4 lb....doesnt matter. but it must be there.

you can add a layer of glass in the hull......then use the foam boards.....but if you dont re inforce the hull first.... the weight of the hull on the trailer will stress the hull and gell.
crazing and stress fracture of the glass will follow

 

[1badbrd]

Re: Question on foam

Here is a pic of the stringer i mentioned.

Here is a pic of in between the two stringers i mentioned


On one side its fiberglassed


And on the other side of the more center striinger is also fiberglassed. ( near the bottom of the picture, it lines the fuel tank compartment)


So in between the stringers was unfiberglassed and the wood rot.

Oops, i understand were you are going on the thread. I just added more question and info as people responded as i progressed with the demo.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Question on foam

I know what your saying Oops ... I really do. But this thread was only started 5 Days ago.

The thread has gone up and down and to the left and to the righ its making my head hurt. ..

Well after more digging i found what i didnt want to find a pool of water under my foam. It looks like the transom is also wet but still has good wood color so cross my finger as i dig further its not a total loss. I dont have space/funds/time/equipment to take the engine out and drive

So at this point I figured badbrd could not afford his resto .. so game over.

I need strict guidance when i comes to first time projects. ...The transom is wet but still natural wood color. I'm going to cut away more fiberglass towards the center of the transom and inspect.

If wet but not dark looking i'm going to let dry as much as possible and inspect again with the core method.

You were given the proper way to do core samples .. why are you cutting fiberglass ..

If i get to the transom i need to find the proper way to remove enigne and transom (or have shop remove it) look for space to store it and do what i'm doing to the transom. I need to look at cost of engine removal and install when i'm done fixing the rot.

So Resto on ?

i appreciate all the help. I'm a handy guy but need specific and detailed guidance.

I see alot of guidance and information. Seems its Not about reading the thread in its entirety .. its seems as the poster is not reading/following the replies.

Investigation of damaged areas ( water logged foam to rotten stringers ) have been clearly stated on HOW to in this thread.

badbrd .. its been stated here that you Must remove All Wet foam. You have to remove All bad wood as well. Your going to have to remove the motor and drive. Your most likely in for an 80% resto of the boat ( transom/stringers/bulkheads/floor etc ).

When you get to the point of having to remove the cap to continue the resto then you need more specific advise on how to prep for the removal and etc.

We Will give specific and detailed guidance ..BUT You need to be be specific and detailed first.

Dont sidetrack your own thread about carpet or foam weight or jobs or whatever .. get to the point..take/post pics and lets take this on ONE STEP at a Time ..

Your First job is to diagnose What Needs to be replaced ( how to sample has been posted in this thread already with direct posts and links ) .. no... We/I will not/cant write a comprehensive how to guide from beginning to end resto post for Your thread ( Its already here in the forum archives ).

So.. not to sound harsh .. or come across knocking ya in any way .. First thing is First. Can you afford this resto not only with $ but with time and the place to do it. If so .. cool lets carry on. IF not .. then look for another first time resto boat.

Peace and we are watching the thread ..

YD.

 

[1badbrd]

Re: Question on foam

i guess learing as i go is the wrong way to do this. I have concluded that i dont have the knowledge to fully restore/fix the issues i see. I will stop were iam and put back together and leave it half *** and use for the next couple of years and sink it and save for something new and dont have to worry about this issue. Learned a lot but i think a little too late. It seems the transom is the last part i dont know how to properly repair and my lack of wanting to spend the extra $ and time will stop my progression. I will enjoy for a couple of years while i save for a newer boat and pass along the headache to another newbie who might have the time and $ to properly fix.

I will read hours worth of previous thread to find the info i need instead of starting my own thread. I felt good about what i have been doing just got scared to reach new areas of concern so....