RANT Debit/Credit Card

[projecthog]

Re: RANT Debit/Credit Card

I think most banks do a pretty good job of providing a reasonable level of quality, but there is no doubt that many come up short from time to time.

I use Capital One also, but have had a good experience with them. I do have a credit card with the bank, but use my debit cards almost exclusively. In fact my total personal debt is never more than a few hundred dollars at any time. By that I mean total debt, not CC debt.

My policy towards work expenses is simple - if the company does not provide a cash advance or a credit card to cover the business expenses that I must incur, I don't work for them. Some may find this to be a bit hard nosed, but having once been left holding the bag for several thousand dollars in business expenses by a company that suddenly became unable to reimburse me, I just don't compromise on this issue.

All of this said, if I had an experience where a CC company continued to inconvenience me, and then screwed my accounts up through their ineptitude, I would cease do do business with them in short order. I don't care who's money is in play at any given time, or what their concerns are. I do business with companies who service me, not the other way around. I am amazed at the folks that think that consumers should put up with whatever nonsense businesses throw at them.

Perhaps the fact that so many do, explains why CEOs of failing companies insist on paying themselves astronomical sums that bear no relationship to their performance. It may also explain why guys like John Thain, recently departed from Merrill Lynch, and who spent 1.2 million dollars (including an $87,000 rug) redecorating his office while his company was going broke,' do all manner of other insanely irresponsible things.

As they say, opinions are like a certain part of the human anatomy that I will not specify in this family forum, but like most people, I have one too. Mine is that it is time for American consumers to demand more. If your bank doesn't value your business, find another. If your grocery charges high prices unless you "prove your loyalty" by getting a discount card, find a new grocery. If your favorite electronics store lists prices that you can only obtain by jumping through the "hoops" of a rebate program, buy somewhere else. While I recognise that we have allowed business to make it hard to do any of these things, if people actually do them, I guarantee that businesses will react quickly. We can become valued customers again.

Well said, and accurate!

The main concern for banks here is "profit".

If that gets compromised in any way, they'll try to counter with measures to stop losses, that's reasonable.
Like JM says, If you don't agree just quietly go somewhere else if satisfaction doesn't happen.

Companies who monitor their profit and losses accurately and instantly will be the ones to adjust "Their" attitude accordingly after a few customers have complained and have left. They do not want a panic, heaven forbid the excodus of customers!

There are schemes from time to time that will get you to have to sign for a new card when everything seems to have been running along quite nicely.
Those schemes can be to protect the issuer from unexcpected losses caused by fraudulent behaviour of unknowns.

What they don't tell you at the time in most cases, is that the "new" card has new controls inputted in the "new" agreement you must sign, in order to implement (in microscopic mile long script no one wants to read) the "new" rules to go along with the new card.

In one case with one of my own cards, an "updated" version of the same card was offered, do it or lose it was the consensus.

I questioned it and asked "why" the update was nessessary, and found (through reading the mile long rules of engagement agreement!) that the updated contract would have made me TOTALLY responsible for any loss of my personal funds if any future fraud was enacted upon my account on the new card.

I went and Asked advice from the lawyer friend, and the answer was " do not sign for the new card" just keep the old one, as you are under a standing contract with them on it, and let them take action if they desire, they'll lose that one.

I followed the advice and the "lose it" part never happened.
The reason for all of that was to seemingly and quietly although subversively, get you to change contracts so they could sneak out from under the responsibility of re-embursement of stolen funds!

I am still with the same bank, a few other people passed on the new card and then no more was heard on the subject and that was two years ago.

I have successfully retained the old contract and have received the new cards as the old ones wear out, but under the same old "THEY are responsible" clause.

In My Opinion,

They SHOULD be responsible for possible fraud at their expense, as that's what they sell you.....SECURE money handling. you pay for it.

And that includes money handling WITHOUT PROBLEMS!

Being stuck in a strange place without access to your accounts is detestable, and it is a failure to supply the service they charge you for.

No if's and's or but's!

PH.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: RANT Debit/Credit Card

I hadn't thought about the switch game in regard to account rules when a new card comes with a new account. In fact, I almost wonder why they bother, since most CC agreements say that they can change the terms at any time, anyway.

Insurance companies do this sort of thing too. Allstate has been in hot water with our insurance commission since Katrina. The reason is that we have a consumer protection law that makes it difficult for homeowners insurance companies to drop insureds, who have faithfully paid premiums for more than three years. The objective is to keep them from reaping profits for years, and then bailing out of the market, leaving folks who paid them a lot of money having to obtain new insurance in a then stressed market, at a much higher rate.

In one case that became well known, Allstate advised an insured to increase his coverage a couple of years nefore Katrina. He did, but they wrote the policy with a sub-unit of Allstate that was different than the one he had before, thereby creating a brand new policy that was less than three years old. The insured never knew the difference because he didn't notice the very slight difference in name, and just kept writing checks to "Allstate." It is the position of the Louisiana insurance commission that the company was doing this to circumvent the consumer protection law that we have.

While the company did pay the homeowner what they were obligated to pay under the new policy, they dropped his coverage right after that. The man in question had been paying them for something like 37 years without a claim. Since a lot of other insurance companies stopped taking new policies in our area, he was forced to go to our state insurance pool, at rates that were quite a bit above what he had been paying.

I suppose I am an "old crudgemugeon" about this sort of thing, but I just feel like ethics in business has gone down the drain. Obviously business exists to make money, but it has forgotten that there is an important balance in the relationship with customers.

Part of the problem, in my opinion, is the over emphasis on financial analysis in business schools. For example, I was asked to give a presentation to MBA candidates at a very well known and prestigious business school a couple of years ago. I did, and also participated in a get together with the other presenters and faculty afterwards. We had a roundtable discussion about what the school offered and what it should be offering. I heard all sorts of things from the faculty about very complicated and esoteric methods of financial analysis being offered, but not one word about training in ethics and the relationship between a company and its customer base. When I pointed that out, it was interesting to see the reaction of the persons in the room. The faculty members were quiet, but there was definately reaction from the business participants. Almost to a person, those who were older and more experineced had their heads bobbing up and down in agreement with me, and the younger crowd looked as if I had shot the Pope.

We are currently in a very painful situation as a nation, but most of it was by our own doing. As consumers, we didn't demand better practices from business, and as managers, "we" didn't behave as we should have. Hopefully, we can learn from this and do things a little better in the future.

BTW, should anyone get upset because I mentioned the name of a specific company here, all of what I said is public knowledge - its been all over the press in the Gulf South for the last three years, so I'm not "outing" anyone.

 

[clanton]

Re: RANT Debit/Credit Card

I`m down to one CC and one debit card, just canceled one CC, because of letter stating they could increase interest anytime, had this card 15 years never default on payment, most of time pay all at end of month. I welding a safe to the frame of my truck for cash and COD everything.

 

[mhg]

Re: RANT Debit/Credit Card

to mr and mrs cool
you made them plenty of money
every time you swiped the card they charge the retailer a percentage
not as much as they would like.
j merrill
you said it very well
I dont buy with rebates or with store cards that track me
they rip off more than anyone could ever know
a certain electronics store just cancelled my c card for lack of use
had not used for over 2 years
they ripped me for 20.00 in there rewards program 2 years ago
I have found that one grocery store we have here that
requires a company card to get sale prices do not track them very well
I get one from the sevice desk and throw the app. away, use the card
never give them the info to begin with.

 

[projecthog]

Re: RANT Debit/Credit Card

I hadn't thought about the switch game in regard to account rules when a new card comes with a new account. In fact, I almost wonder why they bother, since most CC agreements say that they can change the terms at any time, anyway.

Insurance companies do this sort of thing too. Allstate has been in hot water with our insurance commission since Katrina. The reason is that we have a consumer protection law that makes it difficult for homeowners insurance companies to drop insureds, who have faithfully paid premiums for more than three years. The objective is to keep them from reaping profits for years, and then bailing out of the market, leaving folks who paid them a lot of money having to obtain new insurance in a then stressed market, at a much higher rate.

In one case that became well known, Allstate advised an insured to increase his coverage a couple of years nefore Katrina. He did, but they wrote the policy with a sub-unit of Allstate that was different than the one he had before, thereby creating a brand new policy that was less than three years old. The insured never knew the difference because he didn't notice the very slight difference in name, and just kept writing checks to "Allstate." It is the position of the Louisiana insurance commission that the company was doing this to circumvent the consumer protection law that we have.

While the company did pay the homeowner what they were obligated to pay under the new policy, they dropped his coverage right after that. The man in question had been paying them for something like 37 years without a claim. Since a lot of other insurance companies stopped taking new policies in our area, he was forced to go to our state insurance pool, at rates that were quite a bit above what he had been paying.

I suppose I am an "old crudgemugeon" about this sort of thing, but I just feel like ethics in business has gone down the drain. Obviously business exists to make money, but it has forgotten that there is an important balance in the relationship with customers.

Part of the problem, in my opinion, is the over emphasis on financial analysis in business schools. For example, I was asked to give a presentation to MBA candidates at a very well known and prestigious business school a couple of years ago. I did, and also participated in a get together with the other presenters and faculty afterwards. We had a roundtable discussion about what the school offered and what it should be offering. I heard all sorts of things from the faculty about very complicated and esoteric methods of financial analysis being offered, but not one word about training in ethics and the relationship between a company and its customer base. When I pointed that out, it was interesting to see the reaction of the persons in the room. The faculty members were quiet, but there was definately reaction from the business participants. Almost to a person, those who were older and more experineced had their heads bobbing up and down in agreement with me, and the younger crowd looked as if I had shot the Pope.

We are currently in a very painful situation as a nation, but most of it was by our own doing. As consumers, we didn't demand better practices from business, and as managers, "we" didn't behave as we should have. Hopefully, we can learn from this and do things a little better in the future.

BTW, should anyone get upset because I mentioned the name of a specific company here, all of what I said is public knowledge - its been all over the press in the Gulf South for the last three years, so I'm not "outing" anyone.

You hit it again,

The subject of who's at fault hurts when you think of how many times you feel taken advantage of.

For some reason, and I include us Canucks here, we seem frozen in our tracks and will not for the life of us get together on this to start doing something about that financial noose hovering above our heads!
We have been taken advantage of and at the same time allowed it to happen, but still no one will move a finger towards some risk to cause change in this system we have.
We truly have been conditioned to just wait and hope it will be allright!

If we have to rely on our governments to implement a fix, we will only feel the grease while the last bit of money is being pulled out from under us even now!

It is time to get back to unadulterated, plain living in the present with our heads out in the daylight, and do away with all the money schemes and tricks to get you to buy stuff that isn't worth doodly in the first place, and start saving ahead to be able to buy things you like or need with cash or reasonably, backed credit!

Don't buy the computers, palm pilots, and blue tooth stuff on "credit" that enslaves you to the money guru's, stuff that's outdated the same year you bought it.
Insist on quality goods that are made here on our own turf, by our own folks working for money thats ours and not China's.

Buy with your cash and see how reluctantly you'll let it out of your hands.
Somehow, cash will make you think about the sweat and time it took to save it and will make you more responsible.

We have been "trained" to demand service and action without any responsibility other then to now be endebted to the money moguls, and the same has happened in the international scenes in commerce and lending.

The biggest chunks of our homelands are owned by foreigners in the end, and they hold our debts also!
That's one sure fire way to get evicted fast!

When are we going to wake up and do something to set this right?
If we won't, we'll be right back in the mud where we started from.

Got me all fired up again, and getiing off subject too....I'm outta here
No apologies offered!