ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

[turborich]

Hey guys,

I finally got around to pulling the drive off & now I need some help & advice on what to do next.

I bought the boat thinking that the drive was bad because it was stuck in neutral, after looking around I found that where the drive shift meets the shift on the gimbal housing, it was basicly mashed together & not lined up. This is why it was stuck in neutral & why my shift cable in the boat was broke.

I got a hold of another entire good 888 drive that I was going to use, Now I'm not sure & need the advice.

The metal shift thing (see pics) that comes out of the lower unit if different on the drives. On the origional drive, that shift thing rotates to the left & on the 888 it rotates to the right, if you look at the pics you will see this. I would asume that this would make forward & reverse opposite. I would also need to swap the drive shafts out as they are different. What do I do in this situation?

On the origional drive water was leaking in thru the gimbal because the idiot didn't use the large o-ring arounfd the drive shaft or the small oring for the fresh water intake. The drive became filled with water/gear oil & started leaking out of the weep hole near the bottom. Can I re-seal this drive? what is involved?

Please remember that I am a fairly poor guy & don't have money to throw at this, I am trying to do it as cheap as possible. I allready orderd a new complete set of bellows, gimbal bearing, gasket. It should be here tomorrow.


Thank you, Rich

888 drive

888 drive rotates left

165 hp drive rotates right

 

[Don S]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

I think the best thing you can do for yourself right now is download the OEM service manual for your drive and read it.
http://www-alt.mercurymarine.com/mnetdata/SERVICE/CRUISER/Servmanl/04/cover.pdf

It's just over 300 MB's, so give it some time to download.

That shift lever in the lower unit should be straight forward when in forward gear and should NOT be able to go further than straight forward like in this picture.

Straight forward should be fwd, turned to the left like in the picture below should be reverse. Somewhere between straight forward and this is neutral.

I assume both of those pictures are from the same drive. That means it has to come apart as there is a problem with the shift spool or linkage to it, inside the drive. Thus the need for the manual.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

Someone mis-aligned the shift shoe when the lower unit was off.In foward the shift shoe points toward 12:00,front,bow,straight,etc.turning counterclockwise for neutral , then reverse.
your orig drive is most likely good,

 

[Bondo]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

165 hp drive rotates right
888 drive rotates left

Ayuh,....

And the Gear Ratios are Very different in those 2 drives,....
The 165hp is probably a 1.84:1,.
The 888 should be a 1.50:1.....

The 165hp just Won't pull with gears that tall... I doubt you can get a prop small enough....

 

[turborich]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

Don S, those are pics of 2 different drives.

The one top pic you posted is the origional drive, the second pic you posted was the 888 drive. The shift things are pointed in different directions.

origional 165 drive that's been worked on by some idiot.

888 drive that I was thinking about using.

 

[achris]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

Looks like one of the drives has been put back together with the shift shaft in the wrong place. The coupling between the shaft in the drive and the shaft in the bellhousing should be straight for FORWARD, slightly left for NEUTRAL, and fully left for REVERSE. It may only need the wrong one to be split, the shaft re-aligned and put back together again.

Ratio for 165 hp is 1.65:1, for 888 ratio should be 1.50:1. Unless the boat is fairly light, using a 1.5 on a 165hp will make it difficult to find a small enough prop (as Bond-o pointed out)

Chris..............

 

[ziggy]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

That shift lever in the lower unit should be straight forward when in forward gear and should NOT be able to go further than straight forward like in this picture.

i agree, somethings up. my 165 drive goes from stright fwd, which is fwd. then rotates to port. yours seems to rotate to far to starboard. perhaps someone miss mated the shift shaft in the lower with the shift lever in the pic. that's a hopefull guess. perhaps dons is right too. broke inside the lower.

is the 888 the pic of the one with all the rust on it? if so. i'd sure be going in to look at the front yoke seal. probably all rusted up yoke. that'll eat up the ft. seal. ya should do the ujoints on that one too. along with the shift cable while yer there. the 165, if it leaked water in. i'd be worried about the gears inside the drive being rusty too. how'd the gear lub look when ya drained it? any water, rustys, or metal fragments? on the 165, the shift lever looks rusty too. mine looked like that kinda sorta. i replaced that and the shift shaft in the bellhouseing along with the seal. they make a new style seal that supposed to be better too.

The 165hp is probably a 1.84:1,.

guess i thought a 165 drive had 1.65:1. if so, that'd be closer to the 1.5:1 ratio. have no idea if ya can mix and match though. surely it'd be best to keep yer proper ratio.

if ya start tearing into the upper or the lower. ya may need special merc tools.

now that ya've got the service manual. really read it. and really follow it. i read mine over and over before i attempted to take my upper apart. looks like the lower is ever more complex....

 

[achris]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

The shaft in the top box and its mate in the lower box are just splined together. Split the boxes, re-align the shafts and you should be good to go.

 

[turborich]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

Ok guys, thanks for the info.

This is what I have so far.

The rusted u joints are on the 165 drive from my boat, the 888 drive has good u joints but it all would need to be changed anyways since it's the wrong size shaft (too long) I was then going to find a prop to compinsate for the gear difference, 1.65 vs. 1.50. I am not worried about going 50 mph in this old boat, I just wanna be able to cruise around the lake.
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Also just to clear things up, The 888 drive's shift shoe thing points forward & rotates counter clockwise

The 165's drive shifts shoe thing points forward & rotates clockwise

This is why I was confused about this. I still don't understand why?
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There was NO OIL in the 165 drive, it all leaked out through the weep hole, every single bit of it. I seperated the two halves & there was no oil. Despite this the shafts still spin the prop & are not broke yet. I need to figure out how the oil leaked out? I also need to decide which drive to use. I know for a fact that the 888 drive is good, It has just been sitting around for years & got all dusty.

I don't have any mercruiser tools laying around, so tearing the 165 drive down is not really an option for me unless it's something fairly simple. The boat isn't worth much more than $1,000 bucks with a good drive anyways.

I am going to download the manual & see if I can figure this thing out. Thank you for the manual! Thank you for all of the advice & help! I need it. You guys are great!!!

 

[fishrdan]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

I think the guys are right, someone clocked the shift lever wrong when the put the drive back together. I have mine split and just looked at it, it's a hex splined shaft, looks like the PO got it off 1 tooth.

This should be an easy fix, but order an impeller (or water pump kit) before you put it back together as you will want to replace this while it's apart.

You said the PO didn't replace a few key seals in the drive, wonder if he forgot the oil passage O-ring in between the upper and lower units... Guess you will find out when you split the drive. Could explain part of the fluid leaks...

 

[turborich]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

I think the guys are right, someone clocked the shift lever wrong when the put the drive back together. I have mine split and just looked at it, it's a hex splined shaft, looks like the PO got it off 1 tooth.

This should be an easy fix, but order an impeller (or water pump kit) before you put it back together as you will want to replace this while it's apart.

You said the PO didn't replace a few key seals in the drive, wonder if he forgot the oil passage O-ring in between the upper and lower units... Guess you will find out when you split the drive. Could explain part of the fluid leaks...

I have it apart now, there are no orings or seals anywhere. It's like he just tossed them out. I'm not even sure where they go. I will get an impeller but I need to figure out how it goes because I think it was done wrong as well.

I am trying to get the manual to download but having trouble

 

[fishrdan]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

O-rings,,, we don't need no stink'in O-rings (well at least that's what the PO thought )

To load the manual, kick it off before going to bed. I think it took an 1-2 hours when I downloaded it.

 

[achris]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

... am trying to get the manual to download but having trouble

Right click the link, then select "Save target as..."... then say 'Goodnight Gracie'...

 

[turborich]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

OK guys, I got the manual downloaded. Thank you!

There are still a few things that I dont understand. The gear oil lubes both the top & bottom parts. where does it flow through where the lower & upper join? Behind the impeller housing is where the exhaust exits, in front the the impeller housing looks to be where the oil goes through, but how is it seperated from the front & back? I have this drive apart & I don't see how it would not run out to the other side. Could somebody please explain this?

Also there is not a gasket that goes between the lower/upper unit, Is this correct? What keeps the oil in? I must be missing something here.

One last thing, I have the top part of the impeller housing off, the manual shows that the bottom can be taken out with two pry bars at opposite ends, I am affraid to break it. Can A complete impeller housing with everything inside be purchased?

Thank you, Rich

 

[fishrdan]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

O-rings,,, we don't need no stink'in O-rings (well at least that's what the PO thought

The gear oil lubes both the top & bottom parts. where does it flow through where the lower & upper join?

Also there is not a gasket that goes between the lower/upper unit, Is this correct? What keeps the oil in? I must be missing something here.

,,, you're probably looking for an O-ring that's not there (since you said the PO didn't like to reinstall gaskets and seals)

To locate the oil passage between the upper and lower units, look for a hole in the casing's side right next to the water pump housing, the hole mates when the upper and lower are put together,,, if that makes sense...

Replacing the whole pump assembly is probably the best since it sounds like someone was hacking on this outdrive, $40-50.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

If the new drive is in any of the pics you posted, it is junk.....
Either get a used good drive witht the proper gearing off of ebay or locally or get a brand new after market drive for $1195 with a 3 year warranty......
In the end, trying to cobble something together with what you have & the cost of the new parts you will need is not worth it.....IMO.....

 

[Don S]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

Also there is not a gasket that goes between the lower/upper unit, Is this correct? What keeps the oil in? I must be missing something here.

There isn't gasket between the upper and lower units, but there is a quad ring type oring around the oil passage.

 

[turborich]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

Thank you Fishrdan & Don S. That helps alot.

There was a o-ring in that passage, I'm surprized. I need to figure out how the oil was leaking out of the lower weep hole so I know exactly what needs to be sealed. If the large o-ring that goes around where the u joints are was missing as well as the fresh water o-ring was gone, would this somehow cause the oil to leak throgh that bottom hole? I am kinda lost here.

 

[turborich]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

If the new drive is in any of the pics you posted, it is junk.....
Either get a used good drive witht the proper gearing off of ebay or locally or get a brand new after market drive for $1195 with a 3 year warranty......
In the end, trying to cobble something together with what you have & the cost of the new parts you will need is not worth it.....IMO.....

How can you call them junk? The 888 drive is in 100% perfect condition. The gearing is just different. the 165 drive just needs to be properly put back together. I think that was a foolish thing to say.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

How can you call them junk? The 888 drive is in 100% perfect condition. The gearing is just different. the 165 drive just needs to be properly put back together. I think that was a foolish thing to say.

Yer kidding, right?
If the one in the pics that show the rusty u joints is the 888, you are wasting your time....
The drive that was run without the quad seal & large bell housing ring seal is JUNK.....
I can see the garbage in the bellows in the pic.....
Changing out the gears is not as simple as just throwing them in...
The bearing retainer wrench, the drive & driven gear shimming tools are $150-200 by themselves....
Add to that the cost of the new gears (you won't be able to use the ones out of the 1:65)& the new water pump housing & impeller + a new seal kit & you are well on your way to the cost of a new drive.....
& that's if everything in the 888 drive except the gears is usable....
Not trying to be a bummer here, but I'd hate to see you put 6-700 bux & wind up with something that will not last....
The intermediate shift shaft looks reusable though.....