rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

[dccordell]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

Yeah I thought about going with the electric pump... I figured it would cost more by the time I bought the pump and the oil pressure switch, but looks like I was wrong. The only thing I can see good about it over the mechanical pump is I think it would get fuel to the carb faster after sitting for several days. Might could even wire up a "prime" button at the helm to run the pump for a couple seconds prior to cold starting to help gets fuel in the lines and the carb before trying to start. Anything wrong with that idea?

Anyways.. So I just took the pump apart again.. finally got the bottom part of the pump apart, was careful to not tear the gasket since I didn't get a new one with my kit. I took the checkvalves out and they seem to be in good shape. I'm not sure if they were stuck or not, but I sure cleaned them up good and they seem to seal pretty good and don't get stuck. I included a pic for any opinions. I'll be putting it back together here shortly.

 

[EddiePetty]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

Just a note of caution: A while back someone posted that they put a new replacement fuel pump on their 470 and it wound up ruining the pump cam lobe, apparently because the arm tension was too high with the new pump.

Hey, Terry...is this the post?

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=442543

 

[dccordell]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

Got it back on the motor... I kinda rigged up the elec pump on the IN side of the mech pump to prime it up, then removed the elec pump and turned over the motor a few times and it seemed to be moving fuel out of the pump, so I think it may be working now. I think maybe the checkvalves were stuck. Can't really tell for sure if it is working right yet because it seems either my starter needs to be rebuilt or the battery is no good (could only turn it over a few times before it pooped on me). One problem after another! Isn't that how it goes...

Thanks for all the help guys.. Maybe this will help other people doing the same thing.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

Hey, Terry...is this the post?

That is it, you are better at searching than I am. LOL

dccordel: If you are looking at a new starter, you might consider a permanent magnet gear reduction unit. They seem to work pretty well and are not much more than a good rebuild. The big advantage is that they are only about 2/3 the size of the original and are WAY easier to install. The part # is 2-2591-DR-2

 

[dn010]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

I don't think it matters if the pump or lines happen to drain if your engine sits, its the fuel in your carb bowl that starts your engine...unless you have efi

 

[dccordell]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

Thanks for the part #... I'm definitely considering that. I haven't researched starters much at this point. Is this a common thing to replace the old style starter with the newer gear reduction style? Where did you find the information showing that the part number you listed is the correct starter for the 470s? I'm searching right now..

I actually won't have any problem replacing the starter at this point because the motor is still sitting on the ground. I can see how it would be a problem if the motor was in the boat though!

 

[dccordell]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

I don't think it matters if the pump or lines happen to drain if your engine sits, its the fuel in your carb bowl that starts your engine...unless you have efi

That's probably exactly right dn... I guess I hadn't thought of that! The motor probably has enough juice in the carb to run for a few seconds while the fuel pump gets the lines filled back up. That makes sense... thanks for the (obvious) insight!

 

[dn010]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

I had the old school starter that didn't have a built on solenoid-went to this exact new starter and its so much better, smaller and cheaper! I did need to wire a slave solenoid in though. I definitely second the recommendation to get one!

Thanks for the part #... I'm definitely considering that. I haven't researched starters much at this point. Is this a common thing to replace the old style starter with the newer gear reduction style? Where did you find the information showing that the part number you listed is the correct starter for the 470s? I'm searching right now..

I actually won't have any problem replacing the starter at this point because the motor is still sitting on the ground. I can see how it would be a problem if the motor was in the boat though!

 

[dccordell]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

Yeah dn, I just read that post concerning the new starters. I had a question regarding the second solenoid, so I asked it there. I'm assuming it turns over the motor just as fast as the old starters do?

The only reason I think I need a new starter on mine is that even with a new battery and jumper cables going to it from my truck, the motor still doesn't want to turn over. I cleaned the cables, the only cable I'm having problems with is where it hooks to the starter. Seems the lug is so rusted that I can't get the top nut loose without the whole stud turning, even if I hold the bottom nut still. So I don't know if I can even get the old starter off without messing up the darn stud. Did you have this problem?

 

[stonyloam]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

Where did you find the information showing that the part number you listed is the correct starter for the 470s? I'm searching right now..

Went to my auto-electric guy to have mine rebuilt, he said look at this for the same price as the rebuild. I said marine? He said marine! I said gimmme!! The old one was really really tight getting past the exchanger (huge pain), the new one went in really slick. Spins the engine over faster than the old one. Your old solenoid is used as the slave.

 

[dccordell]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

Sweet! If you don't mind me asking, was it as cheap locally for you as it is online? I might do some searching around locally first.

This sure makes me much more motivated to just change out that darn old crusty starter while I have the motor out!

If I read correctly, I'll have to run a new wire to the old solenoid +batt side from the battery, like a 8 or 10 awg wire? Then just swap over the existing heavy gauge cable from the old solenoid to the one on the starter (+batt side). And the existing wire from the ignition switch should remain as it is on the old solenoid. Correct?

 

[stonyloam]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

Sweet! If you don't mind me asking, was it as cheap locally for you as it is online? I might do some searching around locally first.

This sure makes me much more motivated to just change out that darn old crusty starter while I have the motor out!

If I read correctly, I'll have to run a new wire to the old solenoid +batt side from the battery, like a 8 or 10 awg wire? Then just swap over the existing heavy gauge cable from the old solenoid to the one on the starter (+batt side). And the existing wire from the ignition switch should remain as it is on the old solenoid. Correct?

I paid $134 locally, This is as inexpensive as I have found on the internet: http://www.motorcityreman.com/marine-electrical-units-starters.html You could check out e-bay too.

for wiring: what you are doing is powering your new solenoid on the starter with your old solenoid. I am kind of guessing here. On your current slave solenoid there should be a heavy red wire going from one of the large terminals to the starter. On the other large terminal there should be a heavy wire coming from the battery. on the small terminals, on one you should have a small r/y wire from the ignition start switch and on the other a purple/yellow wire going to the + side of the coil. What you will need to replace is the large wire going to the starter, with a smaller one going to the solenoid of the new starter and you will have to get a new heavy battery cable that goes directly from the battery to the large terminal on the new starter solenoid. Are there any other wires on the old solenoid? Like maybe an orange one and a red one going to the circuit breaker?

 

[stonyloam]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

OK found out a little more info: If you have a red and an orange wire (if you have the original charging system) on one of the large terminals of the solenoid currently on the engine, you can leave them there if that terminal is connected directly to the battery + 12V, otherwise they would have to be moved over to the battery connection (large lug) on the new starter. One is your charging wire from the voltage regulator the other supplies power to the boat, through a circuit breaker, I think. So looks like there are only two wires to change. Solenoid (large terminal) to starter solenoid (10 gauge, red if you have it should do nicely), and a new battery cable from + to heavy lug on new starter. Good luck.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

If I read correctly, I'll have to run a new wire to the old solenoid +batt side from the battery, like a 8 or 10 awg wire? Then just swap over the existing heavy gauge cable from the old solenoid to the one on the starter (+batt side). And the existing wire from the ignition switch should remain as it is on the old solenoid. Correct?

You are right. I was not thinking quite right. What you can do is just run your 10 ga wire to the large lug on the new starter solenoid for your 12 volts for the old solenoid. So you will need: New battery cable going to the large lug on the new solenoid. A new wire going from the switched side of the old solenoid (where the heavy red cable is now) to the solenoid of the new starter (to activate solenoid with ignition switch). A new wire going from the other large terminal on the old solenoid back to the large lug on the new starter (for +12 volts). Should be able to leave the orange wire (from the voltage regulator) where it is on the old solenoid. The red wire attached to the circuit breaker should be moved (if it is on the old solenoid) to either the battery + terminal or the large lug on the new starer solenoid. The wires on the smaller terminals on the old solenoid are OK where they are. There is that confusing enough?

 

[dn010]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

The starter moves the engine slightly faster IMHO.

In fact, I did have the same problem as you with the connecting stud rotating in the starter housing as I was trying to remove the nut. The stud, nut and cable all moved when trying to remove the nut so I PB blasted it overnight, held the cable connector with vice grips and then removed the nut - came right off.

My thing is - I don't want to be sitting in the middle of the ocean wondering if my starter will work, and that is why I ditched the old one. It did work (had bad teeth that need to be rebuilt) but you never know with old parts...

What is your starter doing? Not turning at all or just very slow? Did you open your starter up? Mine was so filled with rust chips it was useless....

Yeah dn, I just read that post concerning the new starters. I had a question regarding the second solenoid, so I asked it there. I'm assuming it turns over the motor just as fast as the old starters do?

The only reason I think I need a new starter on mine is that even with a new starter and jumper cables going to it from my truck, the motor still doesn't want to turn over. I cleaned the cables, the only cable I'm having problems with is where it hooks to the starter. Seems the lug is so rusted that I can't get the top nut loose without the whole stud turning, even if I hold the bottom nut still. So I don't know if I can even get the old starter off without messing up the darn stud. Did you have this problem?

 

[dn010]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

Aye, this is what I paid and where I got it from exactly (talking of the URL).

I paid $134 locally, This is as inexpensive as I have found on the internet: http://www.motorcityreman.com/marine-electrical-units-starters.html You could check out e-bay too.

 

[dn010]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

OY, checked my invoice and I am mistaken!! I remember trying to get the starter from motorcitymarine but there was no link to "add" the item. I got it from armatureserviceco.com for $107 with $7.87 shipping!

Aye, this is what I paid and where I got it from exactly (talking of the URL).

 

[dccordell]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

Hey dn, I can't find that starter on armatureserviceco.com. You are talking about the model number 2-2591-DR-2 right? Am I missing it?

Edit: found it. Have to use the search on the left side of the page instead of their other search. Yep, $107. Wow, seems cheap! The only thing that concerns me is they say it is for years 84, 87, 88, and 89. I wonder why just those years? I assume as long as it will bolt up and has the correct tooth count, it should be fine right? I still haven't been able to find a direct conversion chart from the direct drive to this new pmgr style. The starter numbers that their site says this starter replaces don't match up with the old style replacemt starter for my year.

They should be the same though right?

 

[dn010]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

My engine is from 1978 so that concerned me too. But I didn't see any difference between the original starter I had and one from 80's+ except the solenoid attached to the starter, so I ordered it anyway. Bolted right up and I have no problems to report

 

[stonyloam]

Re: rebuild mech. fuel pump on mercruiser 470.. works?

dccordell: In your carb. thread you mentioned that you have the service manual. Merc #8 right. If you get the new starter you should be able to wire it as shown in the wiring diagram in section 4-E page 7. The only difference is that the orange wire might be on the hot side of the slave solenoid rather than on the starter terminal. Have fun!