Rebuild or just clean ?

[nthrnNYker]

Re: Rebuild or just clean ?

Ahhhhhh...some success !

Turns out the Idle mixture screws WERE out-of-whack to compensate for the sticking check valves. Two by at least 1/4 turn, one by over 1/2 turn. I adjusted all three to 1 turn out, hit the key (not even choked) and started right up and idled ! (albeit somewhat roughly). Now, although it idles pretty good, it will 'hiccup' every ten seconds or so...and after about two minutes, it sometimes dies unless the carbs are choked just a little bit---until engine is warm. Then it will idle unattended indefinately (although still with that 'hiccup')...however, now the engine will not rev unless it is choked first to make the engine run faster....and after about ten seconds or so, will falter and die unless choked again.

Now John, you mentioned 'carb linkage adjusted so that the throttle cam contacts the throttle roller at idle in neutral.'

There is no way that is happening as seen on this pic :




No matter what I adjust, I just cannot get that cam rests on that roller unless I adjust it almost full throttle. Could perhaps the roller be worn that badly ?

Further, the throttle linkage is adjusted so that the throttle plates are completely open as seen here :



The little arrow is where I tried to adjust the throttle roller.

Now, I know I should have the service manual for this engine, but I am still waiting on it from Iboats.com. So, I am going to have to run with this for now. All I can see left to do is to time the engine. However, I do not see a 'factory' mark...all I can find are marks from where somebody else has previously tampered with the timing as seen here :



and here :



Where do I find the factory mark ? And I know I have to time with the spark plugs out & grounded, and engine not actually running...but what mechanism does one turn to adjust for the timing, and what exactly IS the timing for this engine ? and where are the 'degree' marks on the flywheel ?

I'm kinda lost here. I know how to time car engines, but this stumps me.

Please help ?

 

[john from md]

Re: Rebuild or just clean ?

Ok, take a deep breath, grab a beer and listen up.

The timing marks on these engine vary greatly. However, on your engine they are located in the area where someone has drawn a black line from top to bottom. You are looking for indentations about 1/4 inch long that go from top to bottom of the flywheel rim. Look closely as the black marker maybe on top of one.

If you don't have a range of marks, like on a car, then you will have two marks. They will be about 2 inches apart from each other. The mark on the right, as you are facing the wheel, is top dead center. The mark on the left will be 32 BTDC. Due to the alcohol in the fuel, you want to set your static timing at 30 BTDC. On engines with only two marks, you draw a line 5/32 to the right of the left line. That will be 30 degrees.

As for idle. These engines are cold blooded and need a few minutes at fast idle or they will shut off. I let mine run about 5 min at 1800-2000 rpm. If your fuel return circuit is clogged, they will also stall. The part of the return circuit that gets clogged is an orifice that is connected to a hose under the number three carb. It looks like a fitting but there is a little hole in the middle that must be blown out with air.

Now for rigging. Your rigging is totally screwed up. When you get your manual, you need to do the following steps in this order.

1. Adjust the cable of the boat to the engine connection point.
2. Adjust the throttle plates to be in sync. (disconnect the link to the timing tower when doing this)
3. Adjust the throttle pickup and throttle cam.
4. Adjust the idle using the starter to 30* BTDC.
5. When in the water and tied to the dock, adjust the idle speed to 750, adjust mixture to best running , they reset idle to 750.
6. Verify timing is at 0 to 2 * BTDC when running at 750 in gear.

The manual gives you step by step instructions on how to do these adjustments. If you get confused, sing out.

Just so you know, these engines where made to run most of their life at WOT. That is why they use racing plugs. You will never make it idle smoothly if it is properly adjusted. If you do have a smooth idle, chances are it is too lean and you will burn a piston in short order.

You don't have much time to use your boat so maybe you might want to live with what you have and work on it in the spring. Just don't run it at WOT while it is misrigged.

John

 

[nthrnNYker]

Re: Rebuild or just clean ?

John -- 'You don't have much time to use your boat so maybe you might want to live with what you have and work on it in the spring'

Yea, you're probably right. As I've told another poster, it's winter is fast approaching, we've already gotten our first hard frost the other night.

I think I'll just button it up for the winter, perhaps decarb before I wrap it up. I'll research on this board the different methods to winterize the thing. (Sure hope I can use up the twelve gallons of mixed gas in my chainsaw and snow sweeper over the winter )

Hopefully, over the winter I will be able to pick up the new parts I want to install on the boat...tach, water temp gauge, new throttle/shifter. etc....and then install them all in the spring. And I'll use the spare time to bone up on that manual when I receive it.

Thank you so much for your help, John...and to the other posters who have assisted with my newbe experience on this boat and motor. I'm sure I'll be begging for your help once again in April.

Have a good winter, John !

 

[john from md]

Re: Rebuild or just clean ?

You can burn the fuel in your auto or truck, they don't care about the oil mix. I have been doing it for years with no problems.

Hopefully, I will keep my boat active through November as the big stripers come back during October and November.

There is a post on winterizing in the FAQ I believe.

I usually run engine in a bucket instead of muffs. This allows the water to warm up from the tell tale supply. I also mix in some salt neutralizer and let it run for about 15 minutes. I then pull the fuel supply and as she starts spitting, I spray fogging oil in the engine.

Afterwards, I pump freeze into a plug I made in the thermostat cap and pull the plugs and spray some additional fogging oil inside. I then change the lower oil and then rotate the engine by hand a couple of times and that's it until next year. I put her cover on, with a PVC tube frame I made to keep the snow from building up and she stays that way until March.

I put the battery in the basement on a battery tender and doing this gets me up to eight years from a battery.

"See" you around next season.

John

 

[nthrnNYker]

Re: Rebuild or just clean ?

I'm back already, John !

Well, I got the new Force service manual in today's mail.

I think I got the wrong one.

It's a "Seloc" repair manual for "Force Outboards 3-150HP 1984-1999 Repair Manual 1-5 Cylinder, 2 Stroke "

Unfortunately, my 85hp Force is a 1983.

Will this manual work for my too-old motor ?

 

[john from md]

Re: Rebuild or just clean ?

There are differences. You would be better off to send it back and then order a Clymer outboard Shop Manual.

John

 

[nthrnNYker]

Re: Rebuild or just clean ?

John - "You would be better off to send it back and then order a Clymer outboard Shop Manual."

Problem there too.

All the Clymer Force Shop manuals I can locate are also for 1984 & above such as here :

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2033862

and here :

http://www.bestwebbuys.com/Force_Outboard_Shop_Manual-ISBN_0892877324.html?isrc=b-search

and finally here :

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Cl...ual/Clymer-Publications-Staff/e/9780892877324

I assume that I would be seeking an earlier edition, but am unable to locate one.

Might you have a source for the appropriate year ?

 

[john from md]

Re: Rebuild or just clean ?

Amazon.com has a used 2nd edition listed. Search under Clymer Force.

John