Recharging R12: Shadetree style

[Subliminal]

Today I finally had a chance to play with the air conditioning in my truck.

I bought 2 12oz cans of old school R12 off of craigslist.org about a week ago. I've never really played with the stuff before and I had no idea what to expect. Of course what I got was two cans with no nipples, no place to screw a hose into...nothing. However, notice the refined lines of the self-proclaimed 'unique can design':

I later learn that one of the cans is empty. Kind of feel stupid for not noticing, but...I guess you can't win them all.

Anyway, I track down the right hose setup on ebay, which clamps onto the top of the can and then has a needle to pierce the top (notice the hose is yellow...apparently that's important.):

I also picked up one of these little ditties at Pep Boys. I know it's not precise, but hell...this could all leak out in 2 days and be for nothing anyway, right?

So, from what I gather, the basic premise of the refill goes like this:

You locate the ports. One is high pressure and should run a little over 200 lbs and one is low pressure and should ideally be around 30 lbs. You locate the low pressure, screw in the yellow hose and open the valve. Then, you occasionally check the high pressure side for the aforementioned 200 lbs.

In my case the 200 lbs was really 100 lbs and the one can got it up to 150 lbs. The second can I bought suuuure would have been nice to have.

In the end, the truck produced relatively cold temperatures. 50s, maybe. 60s? I dunno. Colder than the 90s and 100s the windows have been producing lately.

 

[BuzzStPoint]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

I dont know if you can find it. But can you buy the dye they put into the system to detect leaks?
Unless you have access to one of the AC sniffers.

 

[DECK SWABBER 58]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

If it is hot and humid (90+), the high side will go well over 200. 300 is not
uncommon with the vehicle sitting still. I spray water on the condenser
while charging to keep the high side down.

You need to post make, model and year. If it is a ccot (clutch cycling orfice tube system, pretty much everything within the last 30 yrs.) it has a accumulator. Big round can on the low side usually near the evaporator, (close to firewall). While charging if you hold your hand on top of the accumulator, just when the top of it begins to get cold the system is full. Then check vent temp. Most vehicles will put out 40 to 50 deg. air on max (recirculate) while driving down the road, depending on outside temp. If it's 110, 60 deg. will be as good as it gets. The cooler the outside temp the cooler the vent temp. 80 deg. outside temp the vent temp will go to the upper 30's.

Why did you bother with R-12 on ebay? Your local auto parts store
has "drop in" replacement's which work quite well and are much cheaper.

Just curious, how much did a 12oz can of R-12 cost? That stuff has been
obsolete for years.

 

[Lion hunter]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

I blew a line on an old ford once. Only option was to go to 134. Everything I read told me that it would not work. Needed different compressor, o-rings would leak, oils not compatible ect. ect. I just went for it and put the R134 and oils in it as the freon was probably worth more than the truck. Long story short, it worked for 6 years and was still working when I sold it.

 

[marlboro180]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

Most importantly , where did you get Mr. Hanky?

 

[62 pipestone]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

well first off the guy that sold you the R12 broke the law, and whene you put it in your car you broke the law.. it is aganst the law to sell R12 to an unlicensed person and it is elegal to servace an R12 system without the apropreit liceanse!!

on that note you can LEAGALLY servace a R134a system and its a fraction of the caust compaired to R12.
if your system is empty you can do a 134a conversion and you can buy it at just about any auto parts store and you can also git it with a stop leak.
your best bet is to go to a small indepindent shop and have it discharged. some shops will do this for free because R12 is like $60.00 per lbd so if you have 2 lbds they made $120.00 in like 5 min.

you can do the conversion for about $25.00 and if your system is operateing corectley 2 cans shuld git you to about 35*

the only downfall to R134a is you loose a few *i have seen (on rare ocations) R12 to reach 28* and a 134a i have seen as low as 31* on a perfict operating system but that is with (fine tuneing of pressures).not enoph+to warm,too much+to warm...

 

[62 pipestone]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

o yeh. when i was youg,dumb,and ,,well you know. i had a 91 toyota that would turn a WARM bear to slush in about 10 min.

 

[tswiczko]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

Could try MP39(R401a) it's pretty much a drop in for R-12 but you'll probably have a hard time gettig it if you don't have your certification. but is probably cheaper than 12 works with ab(alkylbenzene) and mineral oils(no need to chage oils)

if you do charge it to about 85% of what you would use for R-12.at idel it will blow a little warmer but when you pick up a little speed the discharge air temp will come back down

good luck.

 

[windsors03cobra]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

Someone mentioned propane into an R12 system ? That sounds kinda nice.
Easy to get and ozone safe ?

Folks cannot purchase R134a in WI, thankfully IL is a short jaunt for me.
Picked up 2 cans at the Wal*Mart today.

 

[62 pipestone]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

Someone mentioned propane into an R12 system ? That sounds kinda nice.
Easy to get and ozone safe ?

i have herd of this but to me it sounds dangerus as hell because propane is flamable. if you have bad bearings in your compresson and git 1 spark or git in a ft end colison K BOOMB!

 

[kend301]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

Someone mentioned propane into an R12 system ? That sounds kinda nice.
Easy to get and ozone safe ?

This is very illegal and as stupid and dangerous as using gas to put out a fire . Some newer machines have a refrigerant detector and if LPG is detected they have the right to charge you for disposal and cleaning the machine , About $1500.00 , If this is discovered by a bodyshop after a wreck your insurance company will not cover the cost !

 

[j_martin]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

Someone mentioned propane into an R12 system ? That sounds kinda nice.
Easy to get and ozone safe ?

i have herd of this but to me it sounds dangerus as hell because propane is flamable. if you have bad bearings in your compresson and git 1 spark or git in a ft end colison K BOOMB!

Best bet is a mixture of propane and isobutane at 71/29 ratio. It's easy to get there as a 14 oz can of coleman propane and a can of mountain stove fuel (mix of propane and isobutane) works out to almost perfect ratio and just about the right amount to charge most automotive air conditioners. I usually mix up a batch in an old refrigerant 30 pounder.

It is actually a bit more efficient than R12. It takes less of a charge (weight) than R12. It's ozone safe, so to drain it you just vent it to atmosphere, and it doesn't leak off as easily. I'm way more afraid of the 175 lbs of highly inflamable gasoline in a plastic box about 10 inches off the road, than I am of a pound of this stuff under pressure in a system made to easily withstand about 400 lbs of pressure. The above bad bearing scenario would leak off so slowly in the windy space under the hood that you probably wouldn't even get a detectable concentration, much less explosive.

Leak detection is easy. Match in one hand, fire extinguisher in the other.

my 02
John

 

[Lion hunter]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

I don't get the worry with propane at all. Heck you have gas, natural gas, and at times propane powering the vehicle. I mean this isn't like Red Green's Possum Van that he converted to propane with 5 gal tanks and garden hose. It's a sealed system that is not any different or more dangerous than a sealed fuel system.

 

[tswiczko]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

http://www.freeze-12.com/

 

[Nandy]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

http://www.freeze-12.com/

hmm, looks like you dont need lic to buy it either. If it were as widely available as r134a then it would be a great alternative.

 

[Mntom]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

When people hear about propane in a vehicle A/C system it scares the crap out of them. Once they actually learn a little about it thy usually change their mind. Think about it.... an A/C system is a SEALED system with ALL the air removed therefore NO oxygen. The R-12 left in the system is just like the Halon fire extinguishers so the possibility of ANY explosion is about zero. Also propane weighs 4lbs 4oz per gallon so you have a very small quantity in the system. It also will make your A/C work better that you ever though possible! If I had an R-12 system I would put propane in it and I have on one truck I used to have. I do have one question though. Why would or how could your insurance carrier deny your coverage for propane in the A/C?

 

[62 pipestone]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

I don't get the worry with propane at all. Heck you have gas, natural gas, and at times propane powering the vehicle. I mean this isn't like Red Green's Possum Van that he converted to propane with 5 gal tanks and garden hose. It's a sealed system that is not any different or more dangerous than a sealed fuel system.

the only moveing part in a fuel system is the pump, and the other systems listed ARE DESINED for that purpes. it is possable BUT HIGHLY UNLIKELEY for them to ignite in an accadent(except in hollywood). however an A/C system is designed for a non flameable gas that has NO posablity to ignite.

i once had a vehicle come in with i VERRY bad compressor bearing. it was so bad that the clutch and puley was blue from heat and it was shoting sparks, yet still blowing ice cold air. the clutch was seased therfor the comp was ingaged all the time witch means pressure riseing.

you know that it had to be leaking out the snout. what if that where propane in that system.

also in a ft end colision it is verry commen for A/C leakage and sparks,(cut wires,meatle fan on radiator,pullys,ECT).

though it may not blow like a boomb, it may ignite and start a chain reaction.

 

[TiredoleBoy]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

Alot of times you could use soapy bubbles to find smaller leaks, They also do sell a sealant for the smaller leaks that does work well,
I have a license to do A/C, sucks to have to do refrigerant recovery but what the hell it pays the bills.

 

[thefairlaneman]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

I dont want a gas which is poison to breath being that close to the air ducts. A small leak will kill you before you know it.....But hey its your funeral..Fix it right or dont mess with it is the only advice I have.

 

[j_martin]

Re: Recharging R12: Shadetree style

I dont want a gas which is poison to breath being that close to the air ducts. A small leak will kill you before you know it.....But hey its your funeral..Fix it right or dont mess with it is the only advice I have.

Freon will kill you one heckofa lot faster than propane. Neither would be present in enough quantity to notice, but if the propane were present in enough concentration to be a danger the stink would drive you out of the cab.

You ought to see how a piece of metal in a relatively minor accident, driven through a plastic gas tank and dragged sparking on the ground .......... Incinerates children. Another design that incinerates kids is the high pressure transmission fluid against the rear seal, coupled with a rusty driveshaft, seal lets loose, oil sprays on the cat converter, catching fire, all about 2 feet from the above mentioned goofy plastic gas tank. (Astro van, Ford exploder, and others.)

I've seen it. Propane don't scare me half as much as the goofy gas tanks mounted dangerously on modern vehicles.

my 02
John