Redoing boat carpet project questions

[Josher]

Hi, new to the forum. Found this place through extensive google searching on boats, seems like a great place to learn!

I am a newish boat owner and I am installing a new carpet for the first time. I'm a huge fisherman which has lead me to purchase my first used boat - a Sylvan 1600 Expedtion SC. My carpet has been coming up a little since I acquired the boat a year ago and I plan on replacing it.

I started taking it off in one spot and noticed the plywood is a little warped and a tad delaminated. Is this a huge concern when installing the new carpet? I have not noticed and dry rot.

Also, what is the best glue to use on plywood? Do you need different glue for aluminum?

I'm about to tackle this job with little experience so any help is much appreciated!

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

I take it this is an aluminum boat?

Warped and delaminated plywood isn't good, you should replace it. It's actually easier to replace the plywood than it is to remove all of the old glue, but if you want to reuse the good plywood you can remove the glue with a belt sander.

After glue removal or if you replace the plywood you should seal the plywood with an epoxy resin (best) of spar urethane (ok).

The best glue is Weldwood contact cement because it's more waterproof than the latex carpet adhesives, but if you live in a cold climate and have to do this indoors you'll probably want to use the outdoor latex adhesive.

I have more info if you're interested.

 

[Josher]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

I take it this is an aluminum boat?

Warped and delaminated plywood isn't good, you should replace it. It's actually easier to replace the plywood than it is to remove all of the old glue, but if you want to reuse the good plywood you can remove the glue with a belt sander.

After glue removal or if you replace the plywood you should seal the plywood with an epoxy resin (best) of spar urethane (ok).

The best glue is Weldwood contact cement because it's more waterproof than the latex carpet adhesives, but if you live in a cold climate and have to do this indoors you'll probably want to use the outdoor latex adhesive.

I have more info if you're interested.

Thanks Jigngrub. I live in Canada, do you need to do this indoors? I plan on doing it outdoors and completely covering and tarping at night. Gets down to about 5 degrees at night and mid teens during the day.

Appreciate the help!

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

You should read the instructions on any adhesive you buy to glue down the carpet with, most if not all don't work below 65*F/18.3*C and a constant temperature needs to be maintained until the adhesive has cured... which varies from 3-7 days. This is why I suggest the latex adhesive for you, you can do it indoors without volatile fumes and a low odor factor.

 

[Josher]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

Thanks Jigngrub. I'm got into it this weekend and I'm a little over my head, have a few questions..

First of all, this is the WORST wood I'm dealing with, not sure if I can just seal it or have to replace it, I'm going to be selling this boat in two or so years FYI:

I can't seem to remove these rivets, I've tried driling them but drill just goes through and they dont break. I'm also considering leaving the gunnels on and just carpeting over and around them:

I found this water sitting in my bow, thought it was supposed to drain down.. or is this normal?

Appreciate the help.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

For the wood, you need to remove all of the old glue. A belt sander with a 30 grit belt makes this easy. You can tell if the wood is rotten after you get it sanded.

The rivets, you need to increase the size of your drill bit... probably a 3/16".

Water will stand in a boat if it isn't stored with the bow as high as the trailer jack will go, and sometimes it'll still find a pocket and pond.

Keep your boat covered when not in use and you won't have any water issues or damage. Leaving a boat exposed to the elements (rain, snow, ice, and sun) will age it quickly.

 

[Josher]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

For the wood, you need to remove all of the old glue. A belt sander with a 30 grit belt makes this easy. You can tell if the wood is rotten after you get it sanded.

The rivets, you need to increase the size of your drill bit... probably a 3/16".

Water will stand in a boat if it isn't stored with the bow as high as the trailer jack will go, and sometimes it'll still find a pocket and pond.

Keep your boat covered when not in use and you won't have any water issues or damage. Leaving a boat exposed to the elements (rain, snow, ice, and sun) will age it quickly.

Thanks Jigngrub. I do keep it covered always. I'm guessing the water is always there as I've jacked up the boat and it won't drain, it's just a little puddle of algae/water that stays. I thought hulls were supposed to completely drain.

I'll keep working on those rivets. Thanks again.

 

[Josher]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

It seems all the carpet done on the wood pieces originally was stapled to the back, hundreds of staples. Should I leave them in and sand over them or pull them all out? I'm concerned because ive stripped a few pieces of wood, pulled out the staples but it leaves hundreds of staple holes in it. Do I fill these holes? Same questions goes for the screw holes as well..

Thanks

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

Pull the staples.

If you're going to seal your decking with epoxy resin, the SM Fairing Compound from USComposites makes and excellent filler when mixed with epoxy resin:
http://www.uscomposites.com/fillers.html

A quart is all you will need to fill your screw and staple holes.

What does the floatation foam look like in your boat? Does it come up to the bottom of the decking and help support the decking? If your decking sets on top of your foam I suggest you seal both sides of your decking to prevent moisture infiltration.

 

[Josher]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

Haven't pulled the floor up yet. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to support my console without having to disconnect everything. My steering cables go through a hole in the gunnel so I might just cut the hole open and remove the wires through it to avoid disconnecting the wiring. The boat is a single console. I actually saw an old thread of yours on here when you redid your tracker, my boat is similar layout.

Is there anything else you can use besides epoxy resin? I've been to Home Depot, Lowes, Rona and can't seem to locate anything! Is there a brand that these stores carry that works for the epoxy and the filler to fill screw/staple holes? Or can I use a waterproof wood filler?

Also, I've been scraping the glue off the aluminum but not getting far. I've read asenol (sp?) helps. Any suggestions on what to use? I don't have access to running water for this job so won't be able to wash off whatever I use. I ended up renting an indoor storage unit last week to get it done indoors, too many rainy days and cold night now. Too bad the fishing is heating up now, can't wait to get back out there!

Thanks for the help.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

Ordering online is the best way to get the best materials at the best prices, but if you don't want to do that you can substitute exterior spar urethane for the epoxy resin. You dont have to fill the screw and staple holes just let the spar drip through them, or you can use 3M 5200 to fill the screw holes. Put a piece of tape on the back side of the hole and squirt the 5200 into the hole. I haven't found a wood filler that is really suitable for marine conditions... only the epoxy filler and the 5200.

Use 3 or 4 coats of the spar urethane to seal your decking, the urethane has a paint odor, but it's not too bad. The epoxy resin however is nearly odorless with no bad fumes.

Be careful with the petroleum based removers and solvents in that storage unit, and if the owners or other tennants smell it they will probably shut you down. Mineral spirits (low odor) wiped on the glue and let set for 24 hrs. should soften it up, then use a sharp 1 1/2" or 2" wide wood chisel to scrape the glue off. For the remaining residue use a wire cup brush in an angle grinder or drill, this also roughens up the surface a little to give the new adhesive something to grip.

I used an 8' 2x6 and some 4x4 and 2x4 blocks with 2 bar clamps to support my console to keep from having to disconnect everything, I don't know the layout of your boat but this may work for you.

You should post more pics of the inside of your boat so we can see what you have to work with... plus we really like torn up boat porn on this site.

 

[Josher]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

Here she is (before shot):

Starting the disassembly:

I've taken it pretty much all apart now, everything besides the floor and console.

I'm not sure about removing the floor, is it absolutely necessary? Reasons I want to avoid it unless absolutely necessary is because it is attached with a hundred rivets. I checked the foam, seems all dry, the transom looks good as well. If you can see from this pic below, there are holes in the floor covered by a thin plastic sheet leading into the foam and seems all foam is ok however I'm not sure if I'm correctly verifying this. Any idea why these holes exists?

Here is the floor that I'm contemplating just sanding and sealing the top in the boat (the carpet runs up from the floor onto the sides, I've removed the side compartments and riveted gunnels):

continued....

 

[Josher]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

This below is what I've been using to get the glue off the aluminum, works well. The mineral spirits did OK but if could not let it completely soak (such as on the vertical boat sides) it wasn't as effective. Acetone worked ok too.

For the wood glue removal, doing as suggested and sanding down with a belt sander and finishing off sides with a mouse sander. Works like a charm:

I've sealed all the pieces with 4 coats of spar urethane. I was going to use the epoxy but couldn't locate it here easily and spar turned out to be less expensive then ordering the epoxy online. Plus like I mentioned, I won't own this boat forever and plan on upgrading soon - meaning I'm not super concerned with doing the absolute best job (however that's not to say I want to leave it in bad shape underneath for the next guy!). When I get "my baby", epoxy resin will be used if I need to screw around with wood work.

This is my console dilemma with the wiring running through the aluminum gunnel. I don't really want to disconnect it all so I'm contemplating cutting this hole free and sliding out the wires, installing a brace over the cut when reassembling, and supporting the console width wise across the boat with long 2x6's to work on the floor, what do you think?:

Pretty much everything removed aside from the starboard gunnel and console, and floor.

Now I'm trying to figure out how much carpet to buy.. everything is covered in carpet in this boat. The boat is 16ft long. The floor is 10'long x 7'wide. Then there are each side that run 16'long and are around 3'wide. Then each gunnel uses around 1.5' of carpet x 10'long. Plus front and rear casting decks, compartments etc. I'm thinking I need easily over 30'. How much did you use for your Tracker?

The job is coming along and hopefully I'll be fishing next weekend again. I've been working on it during my free time, mainly weekends and after work for two or three hours nightly plugging away. Almost at the stage now to lay down the new carpet!

Thanks again for all the input.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

The holes in the decking is how they installed your floatation foam. They poured the expanding foam in those holes and it expanded and spread out under the decking.

Since you don't plan on replacing your decking and it was fastened down before the carpet was laid at the factory it'll be fine to just leave it like it is. I'm not a big fan of this method, but a lot of boats are made like this... and a lot of people use this method on their rebuilds to keep from having exposed deck fasteners.

You should probably remove the plastic over the foam pigeon holes in the deck so you can sand and remove glue. When you seal the decking seal the foam in the holes too, I know epoxy resin won't hurt the foam but I'm not sure about the urethane so do a little test spot on the foam with the urethane if you go that route.

For the hole with the cables under your console I cut the top of mine out too so I could remove that piece of wood, it won't hurt a thing.

Before gluing your carpet to anything, you need to buy at least one of these rollers:

If you just buy one, buy the big one. You can get them in the flooring dept. at Home Depot. The little one makes rolling smaller pieces easier, but you can roll them with the big one too.

The roller(s) are essential for a quality carpeting job. It embeds the carpet backing into the adhesive for maximum bonding and will roll out any air bubbles, I can't stress the importance of this tool enough for a quality carpeting job.

 

[Josher]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

Thanks, great info. I'm getting ready to put down the carpet in the next few nights. I have a few quick clarifications to make:

1) Do I have to ensure that literally ALL the glue is removed... i.e. absolutely zero residue left on the aluminum? I've scraped most off with a wire cap brush and drill, however some spots such as the boat ribs on the bottom and some nooks and crannies have a little residue left that's really hard to get and and remove completely. I can't see it being an issue but not sure if it will compromise the new adhesive or not?

2) I saw in some previous boat carpet threads you mention Wellwood contact cement is the best for adhesive. I've also heard that the Robert's exterior carpet glue is good and 3M spray adhesive works well on hatches. What's a good glue to use that doesn't take days to set and can be used on aluminum and wood? It's going to be decent temp Wed through Friday here so the plan is to lay it down during the warmer weather and hopefully get out fishing by Sunday!

3) I'm removing a transducer off the transom and mounting on my trolling motor. Never done this before.. what's the proper method to seal the screw holes left on the back?

Thanks again, this has been a huge help.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

1. You'll probably be ok with a minimun amount of old adhesive left.

2. Since you want to use the boat soon, the Weldwood contact cement will be the best.

I'm not sure about how the Roberts will bond to the bare aluminum, also the bond with Roberts isn't immediate which means vertical applications will have to be held with tape or something for the few days it takes to setup. You would also need to staple the perimeter of your deck since You're not wrapping around to the back of the plywood.

The Weldwood contact cement is the best, but the fumes are pretty strong. The bond is immediate and would be best for your vertical, metal, and deck applications... especially if you want to use the boat soon.

The contact cement is more water resistant than the Roberts... much more. But it still takes about a week for the contact cement to cure completely, keep this in mind if you take the boat out fishing... you'll want to keep the carpet as dry as possible.

As for they spray adhesives, they're very expensive when you consider the amount of square footage you get out of a can and they don't work any better than the Weldwood.

3. For the transducer, since you aren't going to reuse the screws on the TM mount just coat the threads with 3M 5200 fast cure or my preference is Loc-tite marine epoxy and reinstall them in the holes they came out of is the easiest fix. If you want a flush repair you can fill the holes with the Loc-tite marine epoxy or JB weld marine.

 

[MRS]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

Looks like you are just about ready but do not use the spray adhesives. I did when adding a deck on a jon boat I will have to redo did not work very good. I am in the process of redoing my big boat now what a pain plus I have two consoles to lift up. But will be well worth it when done. Make sure and post photos when your done and do not use to early if you think will ruin all your work. Been there done that.

 

[Josher]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

Thanks, I'll be posting pics when it's done this weekend!

I can't find Welwood Contact Cement here in Toronto anywhere. Any other recommendations? Home Depot sells the Lepage stuff...

 

[Josher]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

Hey guys, so this project was put on hold for me due to the cold weather here and my need to fish however it's back on. I've re-carpeted everything and putting it back together as we speak.

I have a question with regards to rivets: I drilled out all the rivets on my gunnels to re-carpet them. Now putting them back. What's the best option for this? Are rivets easy to reinstall or should I go with stainless nuts and bolts? Is the hand held rivet gun tool sufficient for getting through or do I need an air rivet gun?

I actually bought stainless bolts and nuts for this however looking at them now, the screw heads are larger then I'd like to see and I didn't get the truss head ones.

What's the best option for replacing riveted areas?

Thanks again. This place has been a big help.

Also, believe it or not I've used 40+ feet of carpet (7ft wide) for this 16footer!!! Never would have imagined to use that much. Everything is carpeted on this boat. 2 cans of contact cement and a few bottles of 3m spray as well.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Redoing boat carpet project questions

The one handed rivet gun will set rivets up to 3/16" diameter, you'll need the 2 handed rivet tool for 1/4" diameter... but I think you'll be fine with 3/16" diameter rivets.

You'll need to buy the proper length rivets, they call it the "grip range", just add up the thicknesses of the 2 materials you're going to fasten tohether and that'll be your grip range.

Have you been chasing those big Quinte "eyes"?