Redoing floor: opinions?

[Watermann]

Yeah I used 1/2" just like the SC factory did and added more AL supports to help with the spring. I don't do a whole lot of walking when I'm boating, normally I just ride in my nice helm chair. :lol:

 

[laurentide]

OK, I guess I'm not familiar enough with the Mariner layout to understand the problem. I ended up building my own splaswell access doors after the deck install, as mine were long gone.

 

[jigngrub]

Let's talk about that decking thickness for a minute.

I understand about the 3/4" not working and trying to "make" it work will be more work than it's worth.

The 5/8" will be your best bet and strongest build, especially if you plan to go with any type pedestal seating. 1/2" is crap for fastening to, I don't care what kind of fastener you use it will pull out over time if it's frequently exposed to pressure or movement from whatever you're mounting. You wouldn't think that the extra 1/8" on 5/8 would make a difference in fastener holding power, but it does.

Almost/nearly all of these boat manufacturers use 1/2" to save money on the decking, they can get away with it because they support it with the foam floatation, and it doesn't matter if you use 1/2 or 5/8 you'll still need to support your decking with foam or add additional framing below deck if you want the solid build you say you want. And the 5/8 will be a much more solid build than 1/2.

I personally would add framing and use foam for support and use the 5/8... but I'm a pig for overkill and refuse to have a floppy flimsy azz boat, but that's prolly just me.

But... it's your boat and you can build it any way you want, we're just trying to help. And no matter what you do you'll still probably get a higher quality of work than the factory did, because you're doing it for yourself.

 

[Nismoron]

I understand. I'm not trying to be argumentative. But 3/4 is just not going to fit once glassed.TO modify the bulkhead pieces is going to involve removing perfectly good through hull rivets that I do not have the equipment to replace. So there is an added expense. Then, I will have to have the bulkheads trimmed down and rebent on a brake/press to get the flanges back.

It looks like the previous floor was probably 5/8 with nautolex added. But once I glass the bottom with 6oz cloth and then double glass the top with 10-12oz cloth, then Gelcoat or add nautolex, it will not come close to fitting. It will be close to or thicker than the 3/4.

I think that 1/2 with the 6oz cloth on the bottom and 2 layers of 12oz on top will be pretty damn strong. I dont plan on having any pedestal seating. It will have the front deck seating, the seat on the front off the console and the helm seating will be replaced with a removable cooler style seat. Anything bolting throught the deack will be predrilled, glassed throught the hole and T-bolted from the bottom side. All of this will be supported from the bottom side with new pour in foam.

If I can use 5/8, I definitely will. I'm not stuck on 1/2. I will definitely consider all options up until the time that materials are purchased. I'm also strongly considering using Coosa Board Bluewater 26 for the floor. But that is going to get really expensive. But will be a MUCH stiffer floor. And lighter. That is another strong consideration for this boat. I am towing it LONG distances with a small truck. That was the whole reason for getting a Starcraft. Overbuilding stuff is my style, so I have to pull myself back and consider the weight cost.

 

[jigngrub]

Do yourself a favor and forget about all that fiberglass cloth, it's not needed with epoxy resin. You only need fg cloth/matt when working with polyester resin. Polyester resin is weak and brittle by itself and needs cloth/matt to reinforce and strengthen it, epoxy resin is much stronger and there's no need at all for fiberglass.


4 coats of epoxy resin is like a sheet of Lexan covering your plywood:


It also penetrates and hardens the surface of the plywood so you can't even drive a sharp wood chisel into it with your hand.

I like the 635 thin epoxy resin with the 3:1 medium hardener from US composites. It penetrates really well and is self leveling for a very smooth finish.

Using 4 coats of epoxy instead of all of that glass cloth will save you a lot of thickness buildup on your decking, it'll also save you money to spend on something else for your boat.

5/8" decking, 4 coats of epoxy resin, and Nautolex vinyl will take anything you can dish out. It'll also save you some weight too.

 

[roscoe]

I have used Nautolex in several boats.
2 of them were Mariners. Still have them both.
I did not fasten the edges with anything but floor adhesive.

On one of them, I rolled it over the edge of the floor and glued it down with the flooring adhesive.

On the second one, I extended the Nautolex over the edge of the floor and into the chine of the hull.
Glued it down and trimmed it with a razor blade. This gives it a nicer look, and keeps hooks, sinkers, sand, and water from getting under the floor.


garys upholstery .com charges $23 a yard, they are located in Tampa.

 

[Nismoron]

I tried the "epoxy only" technique on my other boat. I made two little platforms to hold the cooler and the fuel tank/batteries. I coated them both with US Composites 635 Thin epoxy with the medium 3:1 ratio catalyst. Three coats. I had fairly unsatisfactory results. The top sides that are exposed to the heat have experienced shrinkage, cracking, and peeling. These panels are not in direct sunlight and are covered by the cooler, and fuel tank. When not in use, the panels are not stored in the boat. The bottom sides of the panels still have the glossy finish except where the water runs off of them. There, they too are cracked and peeling. The fiberglass cloth will be added to the resin to combat the expansion and shrinkage caused by the elements. It will also contribute considerable strength to the floor. The white splotches are not peeling. That is just where saltwater has tarnished the epoxy finish. It is still intact there.
Top side of panels:


Detail of cracking and peeling:


Underside of panels:

 

[classiccat]

Everyone seems to have their own unique approach to deck fabrication...all are improvements over the manufacturers of yesterday....and today!

If you do decide to go the epoxy route, I recommend a layer of 6oz cloth...not for adding rigidity...but rather to prevent wood grain checking. Think of it as adding rebar. Guys who paint their decks (ctswf's Offshore) rather than hiding the checking under vinyl know what I"m talking about.

"Fiberglass cloth is applied to surfaces to provide reinforcement and/or abrasion resistance in the case of Douglas Fir plywood to prevent grain checking" as stated in both the West System product guide (002-950; page 10) and Fiberglass Boat Repair and Maintenance (002-550; page 74). Members of woodboat building groups also preach this.

Couple a glassed/epoxy-resin'd deck with Jig's M.O. of applying vinyl & fastening, you've got a nearly-bulletproof / worry-free deck that maximizes utility.

To make it fully-bulletproof, plan ahead & create tapered epoxy plugs where you'll be placing blind rivets. (I still have to iron-out a way to find the epoxy plugs after the vinyl is down.)



EDIT: for deck's vinyl-coated before fastening, you can drill clearance holes from the backside before final assembly.

 

[JimbC]

Well Nis I am going back to my original plan on my boat. Gonna get with these folks at Nyloboard to find out what kind of $ it will be to do my transom and deck with this stuff. I have some samples of it and to me it seems the way to go if the price is right. If it is feasible $ wise you would only have to buy it and lay it, don't even have to use the vinyl if you didn't want to. [h=3][/h] [h=3][/h]

 

[jigngrub]

I tried the "epoxy only" technique on my other boat. I made two little platforms to hold the cooler and the fuel tank/batteries. I coated them both with US Composites 635 Thin epoxy with the medium 3:1 ratio catalyst. Three coats. I had fairly unsatisfactory results. The top sides that are exposed to the heat have experienced shrinkage, cracking, and peeling. These panels are not in direct sunlight and are covered by the cooler, and fuel tank. When not in use, the panels are not stored in the boat. The bottom sides of the panels still have the glossy finish except where the water runs off of them. There, they too are cracked and peeling. The fiberglass cloth will be added to the resin to combat the expansion and shrinkage caused by the elements. It will also contribute considerable strength to the floor. The white splotches are not peeling. That is just where saltwater has tarnished the epoxy finish. It is still intact there.
Top side of panels:


Detail of cracking and peeling:


Underside of panels:

... and epoxy with cloth will do the same exact thing if you don't paint over it to protect the epoxy from the elements.

I stripped and refinished all the exterior wood door casing on my house. Stripped down to bare wood and sealed with epoxy resin I had left over from my boat project. 3 coats of resin and 1 coat of primer and 2 top coats. These doors are exposed to the blazing 'Bama sun every day it shines and after 4 years they're still pristine.

The vinyl will cover and protect the epoxy from the sun and you won't have any problems, especially if you keep your boat covered and dry when not in use. My boat is stored outside 365 days a year, but I keep it covered with 2 blue plastic tarps. Between keeping the boat covered and the vinyl covering the epoxy on my decking I've not even had an inkling of a problem. The epoxy is still rock hard under the vinyl and there's no signs of the vinyl blistering or wrinkling which would indicate the epoxy failing under the vinyl.

 

[Nismoron]

Bluefin, that is pretty much exactly what I plan to do, except that I'm going with 2 layers of glass on top to add strength to the thin ply wood. I may also gelcoat the top instead of using the vinyl. I just dont know yet. Vinyl will be cheaper and more predictable. Gelcoat will give a much nicer floor that will be more impervious to some of the fish that we catch. I can foresee a big King, Cobia or a shark tearing that vinyl floor up when dropped on the floor.

JimbC, I've never heard of the Nyloboard. I'll have to check into that. I'm guessing that it is something like Starboard or Nydacore... I'm still going to check into those as well as the Coosa Board. I dont like the idea of plywood, but it's strength/weight/cost ratio is hard to beat.

Hey, bluefin. Is there an article somewhere on making those epoxy rivet plugs. I like the idea of premaking the plugs and gluing them in place as the holes are drilled versus wet epoxying the holes as I drill them.

 

[classiccat]

Bluefin, that is pretty much exactly what I plan to do, except that I'm going with 2 layers of glass on top to add strength to the thin ply wood. I may also gelcoat the top instead of using the vinyl. I just dont know yet. Vinyl will be cheaper and more predictable. Gelcoat will give a much nicer floor that will be more impervious to some of the fish that we catch. I can foresee a big King, Cobia or a shark tearing that vinyl floor up when dropped on the floor.

JimbC, I've never heard of the Nyloboard. I'll have to check into that. I'm guessing that it is something like Starboard or Nydacore... I'm still going to check into those as well as the Coosa Board. I dont like the idea of plywood, but it's strength/weight/cost ratio is hard to beat.

Hey, bluefin. Is there an article somewhere on making those epoxy rivet plugs. I like the idea of premaking the plugs and gluing them in place as the holes are drilled versus wet epoxying the holes as I drill them.

Chapter 7 of the West System publication (002-550) :lol:

It's fairly straightforward.

1. Drill an oversized hole.
2. Chamfer the side with the fastener (learned this trick right here from iboats from jbcurt)
3. tape the underside (smaller diameter side)
4. Fill the hole with epoxy + silica filler to aid in sanding (mixed to a mayonnaise consistency); I take a toothpick and poke it in there a few times to make sure there aren't any air pockets
5. Sand it smooth.

I did this for my transom through-bolts & used a unibit to create the chamfer:


After filling/sanding:


I never worked with gelcoat...so can't help you there. I've been considering one of these deck paints on my current project. I've used Interlux Perfection (2-part) with Primekote primer on an epoxy deck; it held-up pretty well however it would scratch if you drug a metal toolbox across it :lol:

 

[Nismoron]

Ah. Yeah, I knew that method. I thought you were using premade hardened plugs and gluing them in place.

I've used the paints as well. They are very nice looking when new, but like you said, they scratch easily. I'm either going with a gelcoat finish (cringe) or with a vinyl like nautolex. I'm leary of the nautolex due to ripping and scratching with some of the fish we pull in. I think a live 400lb shark is going to wreak havok on a vinyl floor. haha

 

[classiccat]

400# shark floppin on the deck.... Gives the term "ankle biter" a whole new meaning :lol: For clarification, I was referring to the paint for your house's deck...jasoutside used deckover on his "islander" project...still waiting for his review on it regarding durability / cleaning.

 

[JimbC]

Nyloboard is a product that is made from recycled carpet fibers. Check out their web site. They are located real close to me. I did talk with them a while back when I first started on my boat. Talked to them about making my transom they said they could make it as thick as I needed 1 1/2" The samples they gave me are pretty dang nice you can also get it with light skin of fiberglass on both sides. Go here the guy restoring this boat used it in his, not aluminum but Man what a job on a restore. (check out the whole thread) http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating...um/367329-restoring-1985-dusky-256-css-8.html

 

[Nismoron]

I was referring to the paint for your house's deck...jasoutside used deckover on his "islander" project...still waiting for his review on it regarding durability / cleaning.

For that it would work fine. But I dont have a "house". Mine is an open Center Console. But I do still have to do something to the gunwale tops and the splashwell top edge. I'm thinking of returning to the nautolex for the gunwales, but that is a whole nother topic...