Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

[longstand]

First off, this for a boat. but since everyone here is really smart, i just wanted to give it a try.

The engine is a GM:

Problem:
The Shifter which connects to the carburetor is working properly.
BUT
Instead of using Wire to open the Throttle body to give gas to the engine,
is there a device (ANY Device) i could use to make it electrical.

I want a smooth throttle response and very responsive, its very critical when your docking your boat to have good control of your throttle, you give to much gas it will crash into another boat.

I was thinking of remote control actuator, the same device REMOTE control Car use to turn the wheel.

This is Call RC. Servos:

i was thinking of removing the cable which connect to the Shifter and Replace it with a Servos

what do you guys think. i will do this before summer. anyone had than something like this before?

and of-course its not going to be remote control. I'm going to directly connect the wire to the servos just in-case some other remote frequencies.

 

[airshot]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

As an R/C guy as well as a boater, the servo itself would work as they are availiable in different strengths ( in. lbs. of torque) the problem I see is you will need a transmitter to get the signal to the servo. Just wiring them into the circuit will not make them work correctly. I do not know all the electrical terms associated with this but the transmitter and a reciever sorts out the signals and tells the servo what it needs to do and the speed it needs to do it at. I understand what you want to do, do not think it will be feasable.
Airshot

 

[longstand]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

OK. That's fine. I could do remote control instead of direct wiring to the servo

i think i could control both engine with this Servos for less than $100

 

[longstand]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

Bubba, give me some instruction and picture of your set-up. i will really love to put something like that on my boat.

how much did it cost you for everything?
What other item did you need to purchase to make your actuator for you?

Can i use that Electric linear actuator to shift my Gear from Forward to Reverse?

What control Panel did you use to Control all this Actuator? GOT PICTURE

is it responsive?,

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

RC servos do not have the strength to stand up to this type of service. They are also not marine rated meaning they are not "ignition protected" or "water proof" nor can they be made that way. They definitely are not strong enough for "shifting" duty. Linear actuators make much more sense. Anytme you enter the "fly-by-wire" arena you also need some sort of fail safe system which amounts to a way for the system to determine if what the servo or actuator is doing is what was commanded. In other words, if you were going wide open and pulled back on the throttle and the throttle did not return, what happens then? The two ends of the system MUST track each other. If you google "remote control" systems or similar you should find some systems that are tried and de-bugged.

On the RC servo situation, you should not use a transmitter and receiver system to operate those servos. The transmitter range is over a mile and if you are operating a 72 or 75 MHz radio you risk interfering with other RC equipment using the channels available to them on those two frequencies. You will not only have the AMA after you but the FCC as well. You might get away with using a 2.4 GHz spread spectrum radio since the receiver is "coded" only to that transmitter so interference is not a problem. Yes -- there are lots of RC float planes and boats operating on public waters. In fact there are scheduled events for these activities and interference from your boat would result in an angry bunch of RC'ers decending on you.

 

[Don S]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

Sounds to me like you have as shift/throttle control problem, most likely cable adjustmen. If you can't give just small amounts of throttle, then fix that problem, Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. Why don't you fix something that has worked well for thousands of boat owners, instead of building a dangerous situation looking for a place to happen..

 

[Bondo]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

Sounds to me like you have as shift/throttle control problem, most likely cable adjustmen. If you can't give just small amounts of throttle, then fix that problem, Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. Why don't you fix something that has worked well for thousands of boat owners, instead of building a dangerous situation looking for a place to happen..

Ayuh,... I agree completely,....
Reinventing the wheel as proposed in this thread,...
Would gives a whole new meaning to having a Short Circuit....

Cable control is the Best there is, if it's kept in Good Working Order...
If the cables are Bad, or the controller is broken,...
Fix or Replace 'em....

Donno about Volvo, but both Merc., 'n OMC used/ have tried electronic controls,...
Look how Great that worked out,....
I wonder if maybe they both dropped such things, because it Don't work so well,..??

 

[Don S]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

You aren't starting anything new Bubba, Volvo has Joystick control manuvering. Tried and tested and a bunch of years of use.
Problem is, it's expensive. They have the digital throttle and shift, same as mercruisrer.
You might make something that will work for personal use, but unless you have unlimited money, or a bunch of finacial backers, you can't afford to make anything digital for the general public, or even setup a different engine for marine use. it just takes too much money in this lawyer filled world.

Have a look at what Volvo has been doing.
http://www.volvopenta.com/volvopent..._accessories/joystick/Pages/Joystickfilm.aspx

 

[E4ODnut]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

longstand,
I have to agree with Don on this one. I am a fan of electronic controls, but this one has to be approached very carefully. A lot of very bad things can happen if the system fails, so it must have fail safe capabilities built in. If you are very talented, and have lots of money to spend on R+D then have fun with it, but if it were me, I'd get the cable system working properly.

Bubba. I had a look at that link. Looks like the L12 is powerful enough to operate the throttle but I'm not sure about the shifter. At an unloaded travel rate of 12mm per second, isn't that too slow a response time for either?

I use an RC servo control the chokes on the 4160 Holley carburetors on my boat (the standard electric bi metal chokes were just too crude for my liking). They are direct wired to a controller I built and operate on 5 volts DC. I control them with a potentiometer on the dash. I also have a digital readout in percentage for choke position. Response time moves the choke from full closed to full open as fast as I can twist the pot. The worse thing that will happen if the thing fails is that the choke will stay in a given position. If that happens it's an easy matter to disconnect the servo and manually position the choke but it's been working without a hiccup for a couple of years now.

 

[1fishbone]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

Electric over hydraulic has been used for many years on both commercial and large pleasure boats/ships.
Some do ALL controls with just a push of a button, sail trim, raising lowering, furling sails, anchor windlass, steering and applications like you propose...engine control.

Stick with something more robust than hobby parts.

FYI I worked on a 130' pleasure sailing ship had a mishap at sea, in bad weather, while under 'computer control', the computer could control all aspects of sailing, it locked up, a mate rebooted the system, ship's system took 30 seconds to release and go to manual...in that time the ship came about, a huge wave crashed broadside into the ship, half rolled it, the prop came out of the water, bent the shaft, caved in part of the deck, blew out some pilot house windows and was nearly lost (lack of full power)

While in dry-dock, the owner instructed the yard to remove the computer, he also instructed his other 150' pleasure sailing ship to disable that computer system!

"Fly-by-wire" is not fool proof!

 

[longstand]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

The Shifter works GOOD.

How did i test it?

I remove all the cables on IT, and Shifted it in every direction. it works fine.

I remove the cable 1 by 1 and PULL & Push and it works just find.


Ones i install everything back. i had the problem again. its Hard give throttle.

I will make a video tommorow or next week. and you will see what I'm talking about

 

[Don S]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

The cables wear out and corrode, and go bad. If the control is good, put on new cables and adjust them properly and it will work.
Please explain exactly what the problem is. Don't just come up with a way to bypass a proper fix.

 

[longstand]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

Ok! Don S! I always listen to you. so tommorow or before the end of this week. i will post a picture or/and video of the cables and the shifter too. and you decide if i need to purchase a new one..

 

[Brucetafer]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

i did this in college, on a circuit system that controlled a remote control ATV, the ONE problem it had was coil interference with the RF, which ended up destroying the ATV, but!!!!! once we hard wired in a IR system all the problems went away, so if its wired, the only thing to worry about is getting the correct size servo and MAKE SURE you get a water resistant one... some are waterproof for boats and submarines... have fun and good luck!!! but for responce, high speed servos work great but its really tough to get them to stay adjusted correctly.. IMO it would be cool, but useless if you already have it hooked up leave it!

 

[wire2]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

There's been a boat show on in Toronto this past week, I saw a demo of Yamaha's digital remote shift and throttle by wire setup available in their larger outboards. There's additional controls on a dash mounted touch screen cpu display by which you can adjust idle in 50 rpm increments for trolling. The display can also be set to show all readings normally associated with standard gauges. Temp, pressure, volts, rpm, etc. All marine sealed and USCG approved.

Neat stuff but probably $$$ to buy the individual parts to install on another boat.

 

[achris]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

The Shifter works GOOD.

How did i test it?

I remove all the cables on IT, and Shifted it in every direction. it works fine.

I remove the cable 1 by 1 and PULL & Push and it works just find.


Ones i install everything back. i had the problem again. its Hard give throttle.

I will make a video tommorow or next week. and you will see what I'm talking about

A bad cable can move smoothly without load. The problem needs load to show itself. If the carb moves smoothly, then start, as Don suggested, by putting in a new cable and adjusting it correctly. Make sure there are no sharp bends in the cable. Merc cables have a minimum bend radius of about 18"....

Chris...........

 

[Mark42]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

Another advantage of the mechanical system is that it gives plenty of warning before it fails. It starts to stick, might get sloppy, etc. Plenty of advance notice the system is in need of maintenance. With the custom electric system as described in this thread, it could fail with no warning. Hopefully, a failure would be a mere inconvenience, and not during a critical time.

If given the choice, I would stay with a cable/mechanical system over a more advanced electronic system on a small pleasure craft. The safety factor, and maintenance costs of a cable system far outweigh the advantages that a more expensive electric system might have.

JMO

 

[longstand]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

Here is the video, its 3 parts, just remember the Part 1 only goes to 3.20 after than its freeze

sorry my T-mobile HD2 phone is having problem.

Video 1
[video]http://s114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/longstand/1983%20Regal%20Boat/?action=view&current=VIDEO0347.mp4[/video]

Video 2
[video]http://s114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/longstand/1983%20Regal%20Boat/?action=view&current=VIDEO0347.mp4[/video]

Video 3
[video]http://s114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/longstand/1983%20Regal%20Boat/?action=view&current=VIDEO0350.mp4[/video]

 

[Don S]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

You have a bad shift cable, not a bad throttle cable or carb problem.
Look at the reply by achris, the load is what is causing your problem. Have someone try to prevent movement of that cable (engine end) while you try to move the shift lever. You shouldn't be able to feel the difference at the shifter if you have a good cable.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Remote Control Car Servos Control my Throttle BODY

I think I heard that argument before, lets see. Electronic Ignition vs. Points. Fuel Injection vs. Carb. Varible Valve timing vs. Fixed. Power Sterring vs. Manual. Actually, the list gets pretty long. Not picking but just saying that time seems to prove the electronics win out in the end.

Those are all good upgrades, and have been proven over many years. In fact, the early electronic ignitions were garbage, same with Fuel Injection. Those systems failed left and right. Its best to wait until a new technology is proven, and reliable, especially when building your own version.

Think of it this way: Would you pay an extra $500 to have drive by wire on a small riding mower, or is the $5 throttle cable sufficient technology for the machine? Would you go with the technology even though it cost hundreds to repair when it fails (without warning) or would you rather replace a sticky $5 throttle cable?

It strikes me that the technology to run a small craft on a wire (or wireless) throttle system is introducing a larger repair expense, and a larger window for failure than the traditional cable system, and in this case, it could be a life threatening situation.