Reno Air Races tragedy

robert graham

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Re: Reno Air Races tragedy

I read he had about 24" clipped off each wing tip. A modified elevator trim may have failed during flight. Of course this plane was very highly modified and had not been proven to a high degree, so it was in an "experimental state". Guess if you screw with something like that long enough it could bite you in the butt, especially in the sport of air racing!
 

southkogs

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Re: Reno Air Races tragedy

From the video I saw of the crash, his AOA coming to the ground was pretty dramatic. Something pretty distinct happened up there that has little to nothing to do with the airplane type/style/modifications.

FAA requirements for airplanes are pretty strict and pilots are pretty calculated people. I would be surprised if there was anything outside of the "normal" dangers of flying associated with the airplane. And frankly a 74 y.o. pilot (or 80 as originally reported) doesn't even concern me that much (though, these airplanes are pulling rather high G's and that concern probably grows as someone ages). Flying is still relatively safe, and air racing (while listed in the "nuts" category in my book) is a sport with relatively few tragic stories involved.

The crowd's proximity to the crash is still a little bit of a mystery to me. I've spent a lot of time around air shows and typically there is a relatively sound plan to keep the most likely areas for a crash to occur well away from the audience and this wreck seems way to close to the spectators. Otherwise, the whole thing is sad to see folks dead and injured at such a community type of event.
 

robert graham

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Re: Reno Air Races tragedy

Check the video for his elevator trim tab coming off just before impact.....
 

bassman284

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Re: Reno Air Races tragedy

Vintage car racing isn't really racing, it's a parade around a race track where people are afraid of scratching their paint. If any of the cars were still competitive, people would be actually racing them!

Clearly you have never attended the Brian Redman challenge at Road America.
 

southkogs

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Re: Reno Air Races tragedy

Check the video for his elevator trim tab coming off just before impact.....

Saw that ... will a trim tab do that much to you at that speed, or is it more likely that's part of something MUCH bigger happening with the controls?
 

BF

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Re: Reno Air Races tragedy

Saw that ... will a trim tab do that much to you at that speed, or is it more likely that's part of something MUCH bigger happening with the controls?

Thought of that too... in the pict's I saw, one trim tab was missing, but it appeared like the elevator and ailerons were neutral... there looked to be a bit of rudder applied. Seemed strange that you wouldn't see some aileron input as the pilot would've presumably been trying to control the roll. Made me wonder if there was some catastrophic failure of the controls attached to the stick. The plane looked pretty funky with such short wings... 5' off each wing is what I saw in another you tube video (about pilot).

As for racing "old" planes. I seriously doubt there is much on these planes that is original. Calling them P-51's seems almost misleading... They are heavily modified in pretty much every aspect. Everything would have been meticulously inspected, regularly. But sadly, sometimes things break without warning.
 

southkogs

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Re: Reno Air Races tragedy

Sounds like today that the trim may have done it after all. The suggestion is that the trim tab caused a positive G load that blacked the pilot out - I didn't realize a tab could do that much, but I guess these birds are moving that hard and hot.
 

robert graham

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Re: Reno Air Races tragedy

Saw that ... will a trim tab do that much to you at that speed, or is it more likely that's part of something MUCH bigger happening with the controls?

With the total destruction on impact we may never really know what happened, maybe a lot of speculation from the NTSB and FAA.....folks regularly get killed in these air races and I believe the racing conditions and airplanes are very radical!...guess that's what draws people to the sport, sorta like unlimited hydroplane boat racing, everbody just hanging on!...:eek:
 

bekosh

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Re: Reno Air Races tragedy

On another board I frequent, a guy talked with several P-51 pilots and they all said that loosing a trim tab like that at 450mph would result in an instant 10-12g pull up. It's likely the pilot passed out immediately and never regained consciousnesses.
 

southkogs

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Re: Reno Air Races tragedy

On another board I frequent, a guy talked with several P-51 pilots and they all said that loosing a trim tab like that at 450mph would result in an instant 10-12g pull up. It's likely the pilot passed out immediately and never regained consciousnesses.

Wow!! I would have taken a SWAG at 4G, but never would have guessed 10-12. I had no clue a tab would make that big a difference at that speed. Sure makes the 182 I'm in most of the time seem like a sissy.
 

bekosh

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Re: Reno Air Races tragedy

Here's an AP article posted just this morning that basically says the same thing as I posted above.
http://www.thenorthwestern.com/arti...-Reno-crash?odyssey=tab|topnews|img|FRONTPAGE
Christensen said if Leeward were conscious, he would have cut power back once he gained altitude.
"Altitude is sanctuary," he said. "And his nose didn't hang, it came over like he was doing almost a loop ... and
when his nose came down he started gaining air speed," Christensen added. "This guy had the power up."

Rough calculations by experts using video of the plane seconds before the crash indicate it might have been
traveling at more than 400 mph when it suddenly went vertical, abruptly exerting 11 times the normal force of
gravity on the pilot's body, or 11 Gs, knocking him unconscious as the blood rushed from his brain.

By comparison, Christensen said, F-16 fighter pilots, who wear special suits to counter the G-forces, can
typically take 9 Gs, but only for a limited time. And those are modern planes designed with tilted seats intended
to help keep blood flow to the brain.

Average roller coasters expose riders to about 2 to 3 Gs, but only for brief moments.

Ken Liano, a structural engineer and aircraft consultant, said "it's highly doubtful" Leeward was awake.

"My first thought when I saw the video was there's no way that pilot is in control," Liano said. "He went from
horizontal to vertical so abruptly. No pilot would do that. Even an acrobatic pilot would probably not do that maneuver."

Liano speculated the loss of the trim tab started the sequence of events. Leeward's World War II-era plane was
highly modified for speed, much like other aircraft at the races. But the plane wasn't originally designed that way,
so the extra speed gained from the modifications likely stressed the structure, causing the failure, he said.

"Eleven Gs is a lot," said Dr. Daniel Foster, an active duty flight surgeon at Pensacola Naval Air Station in Florida.
"It probably would have been very difficult for him to maintain consciousness."

He said fighter pilots train to combat the G-forces using abdominal exercises, among other things, to keep the blood
in their heads. Typically, as the forces increase, Foster said, symptoms will gradually appear, such as nausea, faintness,
then cloudy vision, and there's time to work to counteract the impact on the body.

But if the extreme acceleration comes on suddenly, and is prolonged, such as the case with Leeward,
"it can be very rapid," Foster said. "You'd go from zero to unconscious."
 
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