Repair protocol....

[PierBridge]

If customer or friend brought his boat 1982 Baja with 115 merc to you or into your shop with these symptons.Boat has sat for a couple years, no water from weep hole, boat starts and idles good but has difficulty getting up on plain without killing and when it is up on plain no power and noticieable missfire.What would your plan of attack consist of...?<br /><br />My boat was brought in with these symtoms.<br /><br />All thoughts welcome..

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Repair protocol....

It's more fun to see what the monkeys do wrong and shoot them cold, than to guide them to the grail.<br /><br />Tell me what they did - and I'll tell you what they could have done, faster and cheaper.<br /><br />-W <feel the POWER of the dark side>

 

[PierBridge]

Re: Repair protocol....

They forgot to install the pump or clear the weap hole they did not charge for this and I did not notice until I was in the water also the exact same running problem was still there, total time on the water 4 minutes.<br />Took the boat back in mech calls back and said I sucked up bad gas and burned the stator out and clogged up the carbs and it will be $1500 more to fix.There was about 2 gallons of gas in the boat and I added 6 gallons on the way to the lake.<br />I did get a starter for 300.00 no labor and a powerhead water jacket gasket 6 bucks 3 hours labor $255 and a switch assembly $31 and 1 hour labor $87 and battery $44 plus, frozen steering"tight turning to the right" 1 to fix 87.<br />Hazardous waste $40, lower unit oil $20...any $968 total.

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Repair protocol....

Yep... sounds like you're getting soaked, but I'm not sure there is gross intent....<br /><br />If the thing has the normal filters in place, I'm not sure how the carbs got clogged, though it sounds to me like the carbs might have been clogged from sitting the 1st time around. Carbs can mostly be cleaned in place by removing the starter and the front inner cowl support - 2 - 2.5 hours. And a suction tool is needed for the float bowls via this method.<br /><br />Stators die at any time for no reason - and either the carbs OR stator could have caused your original running problem. That would have been the 1st place to start. Time to change a stator - 1 hour max.<br /><br />Powerhead waterjacket gasket? Did you report a leak near the plugs? <br /><br />Clearing the pee-hole and changing the pump impeller seem like it was clean missed. $24 for the impeller plus 1 hour to change it and clear the pee-hole. <br /><br />My real problem with this all is that they didn't seem to attack the initial run-time problems the 1st time around and instead did the all the peripheral work - all of which may or may not have been needed - only you know what you told them was wrong.<br /><br />I'd find a place that can clean the carbs and change a stator cheaper than that estimate though.<br /><br />Make a subtle mark on your old stator and ask for it back. I'll re-test it and let you know. Also, there's no real way to determine that the carbs are part of the runtime problem until you verify you have a good stator. A bad high speed winding on the stator could be the whole problem. OR the carbs could be the whole problem. Declaring BOTH bad up front is the "shotgun method".<br /><br />The good news is that (properly set up) that 115 is FAR superior to the current 115 4 cylinder 2+2 contraption. <br /><br />The bad news is that more and more shops lack the will (and often the competance) to properly work on them. The *newest* 99ci inline six is 16 years old now, the oldest is 36. Your mechanic needs to be 45 years old to have a fighting chance. <br /><br />-W<br /><br /><br />-W

 

[outboard tech]

Re: Repair protocol....

Oh brother, I think I've about heard everything now---------first course of action on any 2-stroke motor is to test cylinder compression.Then a static test of ignition componants, then a run to lake to diagnose the fuel situation. Water coming from or not coming from the weep hole means little about the condition of the pump. The 4 clyinder is one of the most reliable outboards in the line--just a bit too complex for some, I suppose.

 

[PierBridge]

Re: Repair protocol....

Thanks for the great reply's guy's.<br />Today I am officialy a Mercury outboard mechanic..<br /><br />I know there was no gross Intent.<br /><br />My Dad owned the place for 30 years....and no I am not running to Daddy crying.<br /><br />I just thought check over complete meant they would put the boat in the tank and put it in gear which would have immediatly noticed my carb and or stator problem.

 

[PierBridge]

Re: Repair protocol....

Originally posted by outboard tech:<br /> Oh brother, I think I've about heard everything now---------first course of action on any 2-stroke motor is to test cylinder compression.Then a static test of ignition componants, then a run to lake to diagnose the fuel situation. Water coming from or not coming from the weep hole means little about the condition of the pump. The 4 clyinder is one of the most reliable outboards in the line--just a bit too complex for some, I suppose.

Exactly my concerns and there may be cyllinder damage.<br />I thought I was clear with the service manager her quote was, "passages on the old mercs are know to clogg up easily" that plus "cleaning the carbs may do it" for the running problem.<br />Even at the $1200 estimate I was concerned, should I upgrade? she thought"not that its her call"the motor was made for the boat.<br /><br />I may write a nice letter to the owner explaining my concerns.<br /><br />Also along with the stator according to this awesome life saving forum I'll need switchbox, regulator and maybe trigger..?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Repair protocol....

hello<br />after a thourough visual inspection and a compression or leak down test.<br /><br /> after sitting 2 or 3 years. first is to check all fuel lines. rebuild the carbs and fuel pump replace the water pump all this after a thourough visual inspectin and a compression or leak down test.<br /> old fuel turns to acidic sludge, even worse if its premixed. rubber parts die all of thier own. carefully clean the tank. 2 gallons of nasty sludge combined with 6 gallons of fresh gas equals 8 gallons of carb clogging motor killing nasty sludge.once gas is decomposing no amount of fresh gas will help it. if it goes in a two stroke with carbs it has to be able to lube without leaving the solids behind.<br /> good luck and keep posting

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Repair protocol....

Originally posted by ggoody:<br /> Thanks for the great reply's guy's.<br />My Dad owned the place for 30 years....and no I am not running to Daddy crying.

Nepotism = a good thing here.... Whine away..<br /><br />-W

 

[PierBridge]

Re: Repair protocol....

Just wondering the difference in cleaning the carbs 2 hours versus rebuilding them maybe thats where the extra $1,000 came from.

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Repair protocol....

No... the rebuild kits are under $20 per carb (last time I looked). $1000 is way too high.<br /><br />-W

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Repair protocol....

Originally posted by ggoody:<br />

Exactly my concerns and there may be cyllinder damage.<br />I thought I was clear with the service manager her quote was, "passages on the old mercs are know to clogg up easily" that plus "cleaning the carbs may do it" for the running problem.<br />Even at the $1200 estimate I was concerned, should I upgrade? she thought"not that its her call"the motor was made for the boat.<br /><br />I may write a nice letter to the owner explaining my concerns.<br /><br />Also along with the stator according to this awesome life saving forum I'll need switchbox, regulator and maybe trigger..?

Ya, I omitted the compression test (15 minutes) because I inferred (perhaps incorectly) from the original post that the thing was OK when put away 2 years ago. A can of Power Tune to clear up any sticking rings is good insurance though. I just assumed that it was OK when put away, and the fact that it starts and idles OK only reinforced that belief. <br /><br />You're jumping to electrical conclusions. If the thing starts and idles OK then the switchboxes and trigger are likely in the clear. If it's firing on all 6 at idle - they are very likely in the clear.<br /><br />Changing the waterpump after 2 years downtime is a must do given - the rubber gets a "memory". Even moreso if you don't know when it was last changed. Cheking for a clogged peehole is given, mud wasps seem "drawn" to those holes.<br /><br />I'm willing to bet your runtime problem is confined to either the high speed winding on the stator (stator easily tested with an ohm-meter) and / or clogged carbs. This assuming the timing and sync were basically OK when it was put away.<br /><br />The fuel pumps on those things are usually OK, but the kit is cheap enough insurance (much like the waterpump). If you can pump the ball to hard at idle - then get the boat to jump up on plane, only to have it fall on it's face 30 seconds later - THAT's likely the fuel pump.<br /><br />The REAL trick to keeping these older motors financially viable is to learn to do a lot of the troubleshooting yourself and to try to avoid (when at all possible) buying parts from Brunswick Mercury. Sierra, NAPA, Rapair, Pro-Marine, etc. have good replacement parts at a fraction of the gouging that Brunswick seems to be levying on the old inlines.<br /><br />-W

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Repair protocol....

Originally posted by outboard tech:<br /> The 4 clyinder is one of the most reliable outboards in the line--just a bit too complex for some, I suppose.

(Warning long rambling post incoming that deviates from the main topic a little - but since you commented Ben, I must respond.) <br /><br />It's not that they are particularly complex, it's just that they smell almost as bad as a Jonnyrude. <br /><br />While I love it's little three cylinder brother in the "lower mid hp" (75-90) range, I find that four cylinder 2+2 design "troubling" in the "upper mid hp" range for several reasons. <br /> <br />Yes, it's reliable, as long as you follow all the rules. The first rule that annoys me is that you need to troll under a certain RPM range or the darn thing starts sneezing from the 2nd pair trying to kick in. Then there's the rule that you can never run it between 1800 - 2100 coming up or down, you have to pass through that RPM range as quickly as possible - or it runs like crap.<br /><br />The rule that scares me the most though is that absolute RPM hard-cap in the lower/mid 5000's - or the things snap crankshafts. This means that if you forget your ski-prop on it (assuming your skiers will put up with it's funky hole-shot) and go screaming off across the lake - your at risk. So forget about using them in bass tournaments too, or on any small performance boat where you wanna push the envelope once in a while.<br /><br />They are not and never will be a performance motor, and that gets away from the very spirit and heritage of the Mercury brand. They are a "compromise" in a lot of areas. And IMHO they exist only because it's more economical for Brunswick to use mostly all the same parts up and down the line-up, not because they were any kind of cool design breakthrough. I'd rather see a bigger triple for that hp range if the 6 had to go.<br /><br />To me they are the "green eggs and ham" of the line-up. I do not like them - Sam I am. <br /><br />Which, to bring this full circle - is why I would encourage Ggoody to find a way to get his older 115 running properly, so as not to face the "punishment" of having to drive one of those four cylinder thingies. <br /><br />-W (they can have my '88 115 when they pry it from my cold dead waterskis)

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: Repair protocol....

(mispost - would have deleted it if the board let me)

 

[achris]

Re: Repair protocol....

Nothing so sweet as one of those old in-line sixes running at full noise.