Repitch

[chriscraft254]

Re: Repitch

Sprky The question is do you know anything about hydrodynamics? Obviously, you know exactly what your talking about! NOT! Also, if you would have read what I wrote, you would have seen that I am just one very happy customer that has had these on my boat for 2 years now. I did the prop changes before I bought the tabs. I could careless if he buys tabs or not. I was giving him my opinion based on my experience with these tabs. I'm not affiliated with Nauticusinc at all but would gladly recommend them to anyone.

Guess I gained 5 mph at wot because of my good looks. I also plane at half the speed and less rmps, get better fuel economy, more stable ride, lot less bow rise while planing (equals more forward thrust instead of at an angle), turn tighter and at higher speed with no cavitation, no chine walking at all, better in quarter sea's/crossing wakes, also keeps the boat going straight with hand off the wheel ( no wondering). Last but not least, I am getting more speed at every rpm with the tabs installed. You will never be able to improve performance with a prop like you can with a set of tabs. That is fact!

If you would actually have read the info, maybe you would understand why and how all this could happen. I'm speaking from experience, not out of my well you know! I don't need to come on here and prove that these work, that has already been proven long ago. I was giving the op my advice based on the information he gave and what I have experienced.

Check out the thousands of other people who have installed these tabs, guarantee you see a trend of very happy customers. Do you have trim tabs on your boat? Have you used Nauticus trim tabs? I'm guessing no or you wouldn't be making the statements that you are making. Have you read the information I provided to you via the link? What did you not understand? If you had read the link, I wouldn't be having to respond to your very short and non fact including statement!

The links I assume were made for people like you that really have no clue of boat attitude and what putting the boat in the right attitude does. Do you even know the best position for the thrust off of a propeller? Or what a axis is?

I'm not bashing you, I was skeptical as anyone before I installed these On my boat. I have made approximately $12,000.00 in upgrades to my boat in the last two years. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that those $125 dollar Nauticus tabs were by far the best thing I did to my boat. Look around and you will find similar statements I am sure. These simply are amazing and will help any smaller type boat perform better in alot of catagories. Cheers

Ohh, and by the way, if you search around you will see that I did run a test comparing my boat with and without the tabs. Just sayin! I know exactly what I gained, and how much fuel burn etc etc etc This isn't guess work.

 

[Sprky]

Re: Repitch

Your post sounds just like the sales pitch on their site!

I don't contest better plaining, or staying on plane at lower speeds.

The speed gain because of tabs is pure BS.

If there was an actual gain it was because of something else you did.

Go back and brush up on your physics..............Nice job on the bold letters, can you show me how to do that?

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Repitch

Sprky, my little TROLL. You have brought nothing, not 1 FACT with your arguement! You believe whatever you want and I will go by the numbers I see! Answer the question TROLL! Have you ever run Nauticus trim tabs on a boat? Do you even have a boat? Step up to the plate man and bring some FACTS to the table. People aren't here to listen to you tell them to go back to school or be insulted by you in anyway, so bring the facts!

So far you have told me that I know nothing about hydrophysics or physics but have brought no facts to back up either statement!

Again, guess I gain 5 MPH at WOT because of my good looks. Must have been the shorter hair cut for the summer!

And being the hyrdophysicist that you are, finding the bold symbol should be no problem for you.

Simply put Sprky, if you put your boat in a more stable environment, better position for thrust forward, and on a better planing attitude, you are going to gain speed, But I am sure you will not agree since your an expert and have run these tabs! Right? The right sized and pitched prop is very important to any boat. Once you have gotten that far, improve your performance by not making the motor work as hard by adding trim tabs by Nauticus. When your bow is pointed towards the sky, your motor is not being able to thrust the boat forward efficiently, plain and simple!

 

[Sprky]

Re: Repitch

Not a Troll. Just hate to see people give BAD info.

As far as facts go...........The less wetted surface in the water the faster the boat will go.
Your trim tabs create a upward force on the stern of the boat by being forced down via the spring loaded rams. The equal and opposite reaction (that would be the physics part) is the bow of the boat being pushed down, creating more wetted surface and reducing or at a minimun not allowing the boat speed to climb any higher.

Try this. Unbolt the spring loaded actuators on your tabs and zip tie them up, make a pass then come back and let us know what happened.

You must be really insecure about your looks, you keep making mention of that. (That IS trolling, couldn't help myself)

Here is my number, you can call.
Chris Ray
512-567-3299

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Repitch

Sprky, you are the one that can't even seem to answer a question! For the third time!!!! Have you ever run Nauticus Smart Tabs on a boat????? Step up to the plate and answer the question! Never mind you are the one giving inaccurate information!


If you would have already read the information provided to you on the link, you would have seen that Nauticus tabs are similar but are very different than other tabs on the market. For one, they don't have spring loaded rams as you put it! (By the way, non of them do) They have gas actuators!! If you would have read the information ALREADY provided to you, you would have seen that Nauticus trim tabs are sized to the weight of your boat, different weight boats will have different sized actuators which in turn will cause more or less pressure before the tab relaxes at planing speed. The tabs are adjustable so that you DON"T get to much up force causing the bow to bury its self into the water. The idea is to get the stern up while planing , then relax the tab so drag is not caused but still maintain pressure to help with stabilization. The tabs keep the boat from chine walking, reduces torque from propellor pushing the boat into a lean or turn, prevents porpousing, all these things add to gain of speed! You have to remember, like you said, the more boat thats out of the water, the less friction/drag your going to have. When the stern is lifted, the bow is lowered the same amount as the stern has been lifted. If the trim tabs were not sized to the weight of the boat with very specific adjustments included, then you might get to much down force from the trim tabs. But because they are sized to the weight of the boat, the actuators only push up the stern to a certain point, then they relax by a relief valve to the opposite side of the actuator. If I were to put my trim tabs on a 18 ft bowrider that only weighed 2000 pounds, the bow would definately raise the stern to much and in regards puch the bow down to much causing drag. thats the ticket with these, they are sized and the actuators pressurized to the size/weight of your boat. When the stern is brought upward, and the bow is brought down to a more even riding plane, you will get more speed. If the stern is brought up and the bow pushed down to much, you will probably lose speed. Understand?

The nauticus tabs (actuators) have a small bypass valve that after on a plane will relax the actuators by about 30% by realeasing gas to the other side of the actuator while still leaving enough pressure to keep the boat in the best thrust position and still have stability that most boats lack. This means once the actuators have gotten you on a plane and have acheived speed, the actuators are not dragging in the water. They are simply reacting to changing wave pressures against them, kinda like a shock absorber on a car. At wot speed the tabs are completely retracted even with the hull. Thus, not causing sustantual drag! The boat gets more speed at less rpm when getting on a plane because the tabs are deployed automatically to give you lift, providing you with a better thrust position to get on a plane. Once there, the tabs relax, so they do not cause drag. Again the actuators are sized to your boat!

Your idea or physics as you seem to want to continue to put it, that the less boat in the water, the less drag your going to have. Really? Ok, whats the wind resistance in relation to water resistance? Can you tell me that? If your on a plane and you have no tabs, your boat is running more at an agle upward than with tabs. This upward running position is not effiecient, you may have less boat in the water, but the boat is running deeper in the stern end, thus causing more drag than with tabs. Though you are absolutely correct that less drag usually means more speed, you are wrong in your application. The trim tabs will provide a more stable platform at any speed. having a more stable platform will gain you speed. When your boat is wobbling back and forth port to starboard, what do you think the effect of that is, more drag! The trim tabs keep the thrust of your propellor in a better position to produce thrust in a more effiecent and direct force. What do I mean by direct force, I mean when your motor is pushing your boat straight, instead of at an angle you are recieving better thrust! With Nauticus tabs, the whole boat is running higher in the water, thats what they do, they provide lift. If your boat is running higher in the water, that equals less drag and more speed.


By your explaination, even having tabs at all would actually slow a boat down because just having that extra foot sitting back there would cause drag, even if they were sitting even with the hull! There are many variables that come into play when talking about a boats performance, open your mind and join the huge crowd that has noticed vast improvements using Nauticaus tabs. The overall performance is what you should be looking at to begin with. I have already run the tests. Here are just some of my results. Again, have you ever run Nauticus tabs?

I gained 4 to 5 mph at wot.
I plained in atleast half the time w/half the rpms.
My bow rise while getting on plane decreased atleast 50% set on the center position on the tabs.
I can cruise at 22 mph compared to 29 mph before tabs.
With flow meter installed-
I gained 1 mpg at 3000 rpms with tabs
I gained almost 2 at 4000 rpms with tabs
I gained 2 miles per gallon at 4500 rpms with tabs.
I did not get the wot numbers because I was still breaking-in new motor and was not going to hurt the motor by running ten minutes full out.

I tested in fairly calm conditions both times.
I tested going up river 10 miles and returning down river 10 miles. The boat was kept with in 300 yards of the shore to assure I was going through similar waters/wind on the way up and back. I did the testing during the week with very little traffic so I would not have to throttle down. The boat imo saw major improvement.

Now, if you had seen that much improvement, don't you think it would be pretty convincing?


By the way, called your number, no answer. But got your voice mail, "Performance Outboards", I would say, it would be in your best interest to learn as much as you can about performance with tabs. People that buy Performance outboards are usually looking for the best bang for the buck. Imo, Nauticaus tabs are the best bang for the buck. But you got to have a motor first.

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Repitch

Sprky, so by what you say, the boat below should go faster without tabs because he has very little boat in the water.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSufUWimFHM&feature=player_detailpage

 

[Sprky]

Re: Repitch

Sprky, you are the one that can't even seem to answer a question! For the third time!!!! Have you ever run Nauticus Smart Tabs on a boat????? Step up to the plate and answer the question! Never mind you are the one giving inaccurate information, guess you need to hate yourself for giving wrong information.


If you would have already read the information provided to you, you would have seen that Nauticus tabs are similar but are very different than other tabs on the market. For one, they don't have spring loaded rams as you put it! (By the way, non of them do) They have gas actuators!! If you would have read the information ALREADY provided to you, you would have seen that Nauticus trim tabs are sized to the weight of your boat, different weight boats will have different sized actuators which in turn will cause more or less pressure before the tab relaxes at plane speed. The tabs are adjustable so that you DON"T get to much up force causing the bow to bury its self into the water. The idea is to get the stern up while planing , then relax the tab so drag is not caused but still maintain pressure to help with stabilization.

The nauticus tabs (actuators) have a small bypass valve that after on a plane will relax the actuators by about 30% by realeasing gas to the other side of the actuator while still leaving enough pressure to keep the boat in the best thrust position and still have stability that most boats lack. This means once the actuators have gotten you on a plane and have acheived speed, the actuators are not dragging in the water. They are simply reacting to changing wave pressures against them, kinda like a shock absorber on a car. At wot speed the tabs are completely retracted even with the hull. Thus, not causing sustantual drag!

Your idea or physics as you seem to want to continue to put it, that the less boat in the water, the less drag your going to have. Really? Ok, whats the wind resistance in relation to water resistance? Can you tell me that? If your on a plane and you have no tabs, your boat is running more at an agle upward than with tabs. This upward running position is not effiecient, you may have less boat in the water, but the boat is running deeper in the stern end, thus causing more drag than with tabs. Though you are absolutely correct that less drag usually means more speed, you are wrong in your application. The trim tabs will provide a more stable platform at any speed. having a more stable platform will gain you speed. When your boat is wobbling back and forth port to starboard, what do you think the effect of that is, more drag! The trim tabs keep the thrust of your propellor in a better position to produce thrust in a more effiecent and direct force. What do I mean by direct force, I mean when your motor is pushing your boat straight, instead of at an angle you are recieving better thrust! With Nauticus tabs, the whole boat is running higher in the water, thats what they do, they provide lift. If your boat is running higher in the water, that equals less drag and more speed.


By your explaination, even having tabs at all would actually slow a boat down because just having that extra foot sitting back there would cause drag, even if they were sitting even with the hull! There are many variables that come into play when talking about a boats performance, open your mind and join the huge crowd that has noticed vast improvements using Nauticaus tabs. The overall performance is what you should be looking at to begin with. I have already run the tests. Here are just some of my results. Again, have you ever run Nauticus tabs?

I gained 4 to 5 mph at wot.
I plained in atleast half the time w/half the rpms.
My bow rise while getting on plane decreased atleast 50% set on the center position on the tabs.
I can cruise at 22 mph compared to 29 mph before tabs.
With flow meter installed-
I gained 1 mpg at 3000 rpms with tabs
I gained almost 2 at 4000 rpms with tabs
I gained 2 miles per gallon at 4500 rpms with tabs.
I did not get the wot numbers because I was still breaking-in new motor and was not going to hurt the motor by running ten minutes full out.

I tested in fairly calm conditions both times.
I tested going up river 10 miles and returning down river 10 miles. The boat was kept with in 300 yards of the shore to assure I was going through similar waters/wind on the way up and back. I did the testing during the week with very little traffic so I would not have to throttle down. The boat imo saw major improvement.

Now, if you had seen that much improvement, don't you think it would be pretty convincing?


By the way, called your number, no answer. But got your voice mail, "Performance Outboards", I would say, it would be in your best interest to learn as much as you can about performance with tabs. People that buy Performance outboards are usually looking for the best bang for the buck. Imo, Nauticaus tabs are the best bang for the buck. But you got to have a motor first.

I dispute nothing you say other than the speed gain. I still call Bull siht!

Spring actuators or gas, it is only semantics.

I have had boats with tabs they are used to control an otherwise ill handling rig.

Again, pull the actuators and zip tie the tabs up and then call me.



Call tomorrow I will have my phone on me.

 

[Sprky]

Re: Repitch

I looked at your video...........you are challenged.

I guess you believe that the boat in the vid only runs the way shown. It couldn't possibly be that the has the motors are trimmed out +30* from neutral. :facepalm:

This pic is somewhere around 800' and a little less than 100mph. My trap speed was 105.6 I sure would like to see 110.

Do you think that tabs would make my boat go any faster?

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Repitch

Sprky, go back and read the last post before the video, I added a bunch of information that probably explains it better. Simply put, I am explaining what I have experienced on my boat. That is fact, its not guess work. I got these to actually save fuel. To my surprise I also gained alot of speed. Your assuming that the boats bow is being pushed down to much causing drag. This is not correct if they are adjusted properly. Unlike other tabs on the market, the nauticaus tabs are sized to your specific boat (weight), the actuators are sized to your boat (weight). If I were to install my trim tabs on your boat with the 80 pound actuators (2 per side), your bow would surely be pressed downward with to much force and would cause friction/drag. But if I were to call nauticus and ask them for the proper tabs for your boat I would expect the same or similar results having the right tabs that were sized for your application.

I have no reason to lie to anyone here and all that I have stated is what I have experienced by useing smart tabs. Some have argued other things like they are not adjustable for weight distribution or they could be problematic in a following sea. I wouldn't argue either one of those things annd say that hydrolic or electric trim tabs have there place. Being that I don't have to deal with bad inlets and don't really have issues with weight distribution, these tabs fit my boat perfect. The upside to the trim tabs that the others don't do is constantly adjust for changing conditions on the water alot faster that any human could possibly even think about adjusting hydraulic or electric tabs. Plus I like that these do automatically adjust, so no over adjusting, under adjusting etc. with a helm controlled trim tab.

Now, as far as your boat, if thats your boat, very cool and I have no idea what nauticus would recommend! I do know that nauticus will be able to point you in the right direction though, they are very informative and a great company to deal with. I know very little about tunnel hulls. I do know though, that some race boats use huge trim tabs to extend the hull surface..

Like I already posted, I tested my boat without the tabs, then with them. Do you think it is going to magically go faster by taking them back off? Not! Let me repeat, I gained 5 mph wot speed after installing the trim tabs. Nothing was changed other than installing the trim tabs. If you agree with everything I have said, then you would understand by taking away chine walking, pitching, raising the boat out of the water as a whole, eliminate porpoising all will reduce drag, running with more stability all reduce drag and improve speed.

Tell you what, you go buy some smart tabs, and if they don't improve your performance I will buy them from you and resell them. I know for a fact if you had ever tried them, you woudn't be making the statments that you are. By the way, there is another thread from a few days ago, where the guy gained speed after installing them, he said they were the best thing he purchased for his boat. Look it up.

 

[Sprky]

Re: Repitch

Not a tunnel, Vee botom. Check out the name below the driver.

G'night CC it's bed time for me.

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Repitch

Here is another link just from a few days ago from right here on Iboats where another person got performance improvements with the Nauticus tabs. Enjoy! Must have gotten a hair cut too!
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=512611&p=3454655#post3454655

 

[Sprky]

Re: Repitch

Morning Budd

Where is the comment on increased speed, other than yours?

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Repitch

Morning Chris, look around, you will find it! I'm going boating, so will have to argue later. Just go buy some and see what they do, I told you, I will buy them from you if you don't like them.

 

[QC]

Re: Repitch

Guys, knock off the hijack. Tabs (Smart, Stupid or Helm adjustable) can be credited with an increase in top speed by allowing more weight to be shifted aft and getting more bow in the air WITHOUT porpoise. Also, they can allow you to run a higher pitch prop than may be practical for reasonable hole shot which can also result in higher top speed. That's how they can do it.

Hydrodynamically, Sprky is right. In practical use, chris may be too . . .

Start your own thread or carry this on via PM

 

[Sprky]

Re: Repitch

QC wins the argument......

Here is your prize..... http://www.notquitewrong.com/rosscottinc/2011/08/03/so-youre-mad-about-something-on-the-internet/


Remember it's a joke........

 

[skargo]

Re: Repitch

Not a Troll. Just hate to see people give BAD info.

As far as facts go...........The less wetted surface in the water the faster the boat will go.
Your trim tabs create a upward force on the stern of the boat by being forced down via the spring loaded rams. The equal and opposite reaction (that would be the physics part) is the bow of the boat being pushed down, creating more wetted surface and reducing or at a minimun not allowing the boat speed to climb any higher.

Try this. Unbolt the spring loaded actuators on your tabs and zip tie them up, make a pass then come back and let us know what happened.

You must be really insecure about your looks, you keep making mention of that. (That IS trolling, couldn't help myself)

Here is my number, you can call.
Chris Ray
512-567-3299

People that scream troll the loudest are actually the trolls! Some are great for a good laugh!