Replacing clear coat with gel coat?

[lexkyboater]

Re: Replacing clear coat with gel coat?

The Nylene is available at Stokley's Marine in Nicholaville, KY. They said they don't know of anyone else that carries it, have it specially made for them for the houseboat industry, and they ship it all over the country. Check them out at http://www.stokleysmarine.com/. They say the manufacturer is Nylene out of New Jersey, but that they make it for Stokley's, so I'm unsure if you can get direct from manufacturer. If you end up going this route, please make sure and post before and after pictures for us, to let us know the results.

I'm unsure on the sanding of faded gel coat. I can tell you that you have to be careful, because if you sand any of the gel coat surface you'll be looking at silver metal flakes that no longer match your paint color and the rest of the colored metal flake. Stokley's says they hand sand everything on gel coats, and don't use any power tools, but I'm tired of sanding by hand and will probably end up painting it anyway since so much of the right side has so much silver metal flake showing. My understanding is that all of the flake is silver, it just has paint covering it that makes it look maroon or other colors.

Also, if you're saying you have dull gel coat colors, that sounds like oxidation, and sanding helps that, or if the clear coat is gone, you might lightly sand then use a marine oxidation remover. Just be prepared if you're sanding that it's going to take a while, a long while. Stokley's also tells me it's usually $4000 to fix gel coat due mostly to the time in labor it takes, and I get the impression most of that is sanding/prep time.

 

[byrdman64]

Re: Replacing clear coat with gel coat?

Thanks that sure cleared up things for me.
I just got back from the fiberglass shop and got the bad news looks like a transom, new paint and floor repairs also redo a old repair to the side at the rub rail are going to be 7000 dollars a little more than i care to put into a nitro hull. shes a good looking hull 21' 4" just too much repairs!
found a great looking skeeter hull today 18' 6" for 3000 think the 175xp will be moving soon.
thanks for all the help on the nitro,
oh yeah what about buffing clearcoat- above the rub rail only the lower half looks brand new any suggestion? also has factory decals still in place and sure would hate to destroy those.

 

[lexkyboater]

Re: Replacing clear coat with gel coat?

From what I've recently learned, you can buff with a good power buffer (not a drill buffer) and some good marine restoration wax, like Maguire's. It's a little expensive but if the peeling clear gel coat is not too bad, this stuff can make it shine like new. There's another product that you buff on and it has "glass" in the name. Stokley's has it, and only recommended it for a season's application, or if you're looking to sell the boat. They say it will give it a nice gloss and make it look like new, but it only lasts a few months. If you want a nice gloss to last for about 7 years, they say Nylene is the thing.

I'd think you would want to remove the oxidation first, then apply any gloss/nylene finish.

 

[thinksun]

Re: Replacing clear coat with gel coat?

I have seen a few of your pics and assume the blistered areas are localized. There are 2 things you need to address with your clearcoat repair.

1. the white patches of loss adhesion. These areas must be removed to original gel. Be careful with the 60 grit

2. Has your existing clearcoat yellowed?(where it does adhere well). 400 grit it or use a scotch brite pad for adhesion of new clear or other.

Do a test patch repair to understand how far to go. Tape off an area (12 x 12") that has white blistered clear and good clear in it. Carefully remove the blistered clear to gel and scuff good clear. Buy a spray can of automotive clear and give three light coats. Check dry coating in natural sunlight to see if old clear looks yellow compared to new on gelcoat and that you don't see a difference is color for the two types of repairs. If you don't see a transition you could spend your time sanding off blistered clear only.

Without seeing boat in person it's your call and obviously the existing clearcoat was not prepped properley. How long would the clear on clear last????

Good luck.

 

[thinksun]

Re: Replacing clear coat with gel coat?

Was just talking to a friend about clear blistering. He felt the number one cause for clear blistering was if someone applied a silicone based polish on it. He said to use products like Meguires which is all I use. The Meguires products should be the ones in the biege bottles.

And no matter what top coat you use clean surface with automotive surface prep or least acetone and wipe dry first. If there was silicone on your finish you could be sanding it into gelcoat.

 

[lexkyboater]

Re: Replacing clear coat with gel coat?

Thanks for the feedback. I took a tour Saturday of the BassMaster/CrappieMaster/SeaStar boats facility in Bryantsville, KY about 10 minutes from where I live (www.seastarmfg.com). It was enlightening, and the owner was really helpful, answered all my questions and didn't seem to hold back anything. He showed me his molds and told me the background behind how they're made and the whole process of building a boat, including info about the gel coating process. He spent at least an hour with me personally. What's different on his new boats is that instead of using metal flake cut from a sheet, something akin to tin foil, that expands and contracts with temp changes, they're now using plastic poly flake that doesn't cause crazing (cracking) anymore. The pictures of their current Crappie Master boats on their site only show half the boat, but he showed me a green and gold flake 17 footer they were in process on, and it was really sharp. He said they're ramping up production and will be building the Bass Masters again soon too.

He also recommended since I've got so much silver flake showing that I should just paint with Dupont Imron polyurethane. He said one of his buddies used that around 7 years ago and he said he saw him at the lake the other day and it looked like a new paint job. If I just go ahead and sand down everything flat, apply the paint, then use your suggestion of the Nason Select-Clear 496-00 clear coat, that should make the boat look sharp. The Bass Master boats guy said that you can get metal flake in the paint too so you can match the hull. I'm guessing that if I'm planning on doing that, there's no problem in using the 60 grit with my 1/4 sheet sander?

I've already sanded the entire boat, so there's no salvaging the current clear coat. Plus there were so many blisters it wasn't worth trying to do just sections.

I've used Auto Prep spray to prep before paint and a tack rag before - will that work, or will acetone be better since I'm painting over gel coat?

Thanks for the info on the silicone wax too. I did end up buying maguires at Stokley's Marine a few weeks ago when I bought the Nylene.

 

[thinksun]

Re: Replacing clear coat with gel coat?

Imron is a good paint but not that easy to work with IMO. Sand it down, spray a test patch with an $5 aerosol can of clear and evaluate. The red and silver metalic is a nice look. Auto prep is better than acetone. Metalflake in suspention of a solid colour is difficult to apply evenly and expensive. Keep the 60 grit off of gel. Once most of clear is gone you would be surprised how fast it can be sanded with 180, 320, 400. Clear is easy to apply compared to a color and is easily repaired by buffing if a run or dry overspray occurs unlike a color especially one with flake. I believe my opinion is the same if you used the Nylene for top coat.

 

[lexkyboater]

Re: Replacing clear coat with gel coat?

Are you saying it would be best for me to use powdered pearl and clear coat where I see silver flake instead of trying to paint it? I do have some DupliColor clear in a small can I can test, but I still have mega-work to do on the sanding. I'm still afraid that the powdered pearl and clear will not blend or look the same as the existing gel coat that is properly covering the metal flake. I've never painted metal flake only solid colors with my gun, but I felt like the solid color turned out real well with no runs. I understand you have to do light coats and let it tack up before getting heavier. Maybe that's even more true with paint containing metal flake?

Another idea is to use powdered pearl and clear coat in an attempt to restore the silver metal flake to the proper color, then go with Nylene over that. At the same time, seems if you're prepped for painting the clear, looks like it would be easier to just spray clear without the powdered pearl on subsequent applications.

Thanks for all the help, Steve

 

[thinksun]

Re: Replacing clear coat with gel coat?

Just try a test patch, you will be surprised how an ugly sand job looks good with your spray can. It won't hurt boat. Pearl in first coat of clear is interesting stuff, basically when the light reflects off the silver metalflake it gives it a tint without noticeably changing colour of base gelcoat.

A friend just refinished his black boat that had silver metalflake trim in it. He added red (crimson) to first coat of clear to get red reflection and the effect was excellent. He added two more coats of clear to comlete project. If you can paint solid you can paint clear with your eyes closed.

I should have taken more finish pics of my 1971 Sidewinder Lo-Pro I did a couple weeks back. The boat is green base gelcoat that had blue flake faded to silver which made it look like metalic green. As described in other post sprayed one coat of clear with blue pearl then two more just clear. The result is natural light is a greeny-blue metalflake that I have been given positive feedback on. Here's the only pics I have. Interior is being completed now.

Bob

http://[URL=http://www.filehive.com/i.php?i=0724/sidewinder-rehab-024.jpg] [/URL]

http://[URL=http://www.filehive.com/i.php?i=0724/sidewinder-rehab-020.jpg] [/URL]

 

[lexkyboater]

Re: Replacing clear coat with gel coat?

Thanks for all the great help. That boat looks great - I just hope mine comes out as good. I'll definitely try the clear, and looks like with red or hopefully a maroon pearl added to the first and, if needed, second coats will maybe turn the large areas of silver flake close enough to the original. Part of my problem is that I have areas where the flake is all maroon and looks good and other areas where it's mostly silver, where the gel coat has worn/faded. Should I spray heavier there with the clear/pearl mix to get it to completely turn maroon? Seems that I can't really tape off the white trim on the top, so do I just try to avoid spraying the clear/pearl mix there? Seems if I just taped off the white trim, then sprayed clear, I would have a low spot in the finish?

Here's a pic. I don't have a good picture of the right side where I believe the previous owner let the sun damage the gel coat on that side only. The picture is of the top right though and it's pretty representative of what the right side looks like. Sorry for all the questions, but I'm a newbie on this kind of thing, and don't want to make a mess. --Steve

 

[thinksun]

Re: Replacing clear coat with gel coat?

I didn't tape of the white sections but that would not be a bad idea, I just avoided coating it with the blue pearl coat. Don't try to spray the pearl coat heavy on localized areas one shot or you risk getting an uneven appearance. Put several light passes (first coat) in bad areas and little or none where it seems good. In an earlier post I described how to fan pearl coat to avoid streaks.

 

[lexkyboater]

Re: Replacing clear coat with gel coat?

Really? Your white looks completely white. I would have thought that a blue pearl would have tinted it, as you couldn't avoid overspray. Sounds like pearl coat is going to do a good job and I'll reread your posts about applying it properly.

It's going to be a while. I'll probably sand more later this week and this weekend, after a trip to the prop shop to get prop ventilation issues resolved, then actually use the boat the first weekend in August. So I might be getting around to spraying something like August 11, or sooner if I can. I'll post some pix soon of the whole thing, before and after, but thanks a million for all the advice!

 

[firefighter615]

Re: Replacing clear coat with gel coat?

Nylene is available at Stokley's Marine in Nicholaville, KY

I have looked on their web site and it is not listed, Is this something that you have to call them about? Also this is a clear finish correct?

 

[Nova II 260]

Re: Replacing clear coat with gel coat?

Ultra thin polyester flakes ...
House of Kolor has about any color flake or toner you want. I used a fleet white with their mother of pearl and lavender in the clear coat on a old Lincoln...awesome!
House of kolor products are available in about any decent Automotive Paint store.
No Affiliation

 

[thinksun]

Re: Replacing clear coat with gel coat?

Ultra thin polyester flakes ...
House of Kolor has about any color flake or toner you want. I used a fleet white with their mother of pearl and lavender in the clear coat on a old Lincoln...awesome!
House of kolor products are available in about any decent Automotive Paint store.
No Affiliation

Can you spray it with a HVLP gun or do you need a pot?

 

[Nova II 260]

Re: Replacing clear coat with gel coat?

Aye, you can use HLVP. They do it all the time. lots of URETHANE ENAMELS also, visit some custom car sites.
Are you building a 100 year boat or show boat? NO! Just make it to where you like it and enjoy the fruits of your labor on the water. Within 10 years you will want a different boat. Sand, Prep and Paint properly. Use good commercial product, follow instructions, you'll be fine.

BTW, The price of all commercial brands auto paint(s) is astronomical now, thank the EPA. Don't go into shock!
60 grit is too rough for just a paint job. 180, Fair, 180, 320, 480, primer, color coat(s). PRETTY. Post Pics, enjoy the summer.

 

[lexkyboater]

Re: Replacing clear coat with gel coat?

Yes, I noticed Nylene is not on their site - but they send it out all the time they say - should be available via a call to them. Ask to talk to Michael Foster - he's the guy there in accessories and has a degree in boat building.

I was using 60 because I thought I was just going to paint... Being a newby on this, I then thought it might be better to play it safe and just use clear and pearl. Is the House of Kolor stuff poly-urethane? The bigger question, being totally inexperienced with this, would I make a mess? Can I use my standard spray gun (not HVLP)?