Replacing Electrical Switches

[Tim Frank]

Re: Replacing Electrical Switches

As far as the drawing goes it looks to me like there are four loads, two switches, the one in the middle isn't switched and is wired in series with the left one...Also power comes from nowhere I can see...You quoted my whole post and said you didn't agree...I guess its possible power comes in on the bottom continues somewhere in the middle and left and right are the fan and light...But lack of description just leaves me to guess...

Most of what you wrote was about the drawing which I interpreted differently from you, which is why we weren't agreeing.
I edited my response a bit to show only what I was suggesting did not match the drawing.

I also said that from what I have read in other posts, you'd have this wrapped up and be on your second beer in no time....

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Replacing Electrical Switches

the gfci needs to be before the light and fan switch and wired properly...

To protect the light and fan circuit, yes. But who knows what codes were followed when the house was built, who wired it or how cheap the builder was. I've found some really goofy things in my house, like all receptacles that need to be GFCI protected run off 1 main GFCI outlet in the garage (saved the builder 5- GFCI outlets ), or a closet light wired in a circuit that feeds everything on the other side of the house, and nothing else by the closet. Nothing in my house is GFCI protected except for bath, kitchen, porch and garage receptacles, all switches unprotected. Guess it's not code in this area, not code when the house was built, or someone got "paid" (Vegas Eh :facepalm.

Not arguing with you HWAC, just sayin....

 

[bigdee]

Re: Replacing Electrical Switches

To protect the light and fan circuit, yes. But who knows what codes were followed when the house was built, who wired it or how cheap the builder was. I've found some really goofy things in my house, like all receptacles that need to be GFCI protected run off 1 main GFCI outlet in the garage (saved the builder 5- GFCI outlets ), or a closet light wired in a circuit that feeds everything on the other side of the house, and nothing else by the closet. Nothing in my house is GFCI protected except for bath, kitchen, porch and garage receptacles, all switches unprotected. Guess it's not code in this area, not code when the house was built, or someone got "paid" (Vegas Eh :facepalm.

Not arguing with you HWAC, just sayin....

The whole bathroom is not required to be GFCI protected....just the receptacles and pumps for jetted tubs.

 

[hrdwrkingacguy]

Re: Replacing Electrical Switches

Everything around water should be GFCI protected...Last time I checked the switches for the light and fan in a bathroom are usually near the sink and shower...In my house in mesa Az(suburbia as I like to call it) that's 12 years old every bathroom the power come in and first is a GFCI outlet then they run to all the switches for the lights and fans that are above the vanity...If the GFCI trips it takes out all the switches around the sinks...

I guess I look at things closer to the way Mike Holmes does...Minimum code is one thing, doing it right is another...That's why my signature says "Over kill is an underrated accomplishment" Whether I build a chiller plant or install a run capacitor, I do everything from the perspective of doing it right, not cheap or fast...

 

[bigdee]

Re: Replacing Electrical Switches

Everything around water should be GFCI protected...Last time I checked the switches for the light and fan in a bathroom are usually near the sink and shower...In my house in mesa Az(suburbia as I like to call it) that's 12 years old every bathroom the power come in and first is a GFCI outlet then they run to all the switches for the lights and fans that are above the vanity...If the GFCI trips it takes out all the switches around the sinks...

I guess I look at things closer to the way Mike Holmes does...Minimum code is one thing, doing it right is another...That's why my signature says "Over kill is an underrated accomplishment" Whether I build a chiller plant or install a run capacitor, I do everything from the perspective of doing it right, not cheap or fast...

I was just clarifying to everyone of what is normal. There is no safety justification to put switches on a GFCI circuit or on overhead fixtures that cannot be reached. The metal parts of the switch,light & fan are required to be grounded...this would prevent them from ever becoming energized. This is not minimum code,it is understanding code and it's intent. I have attended board discussions and recommendations with the NEC and I can tell you that there has never been a reported injury due to the lack of GFCI protection on wall switches. Now neglect is another issue,if the cover plates are missing or someone plugs an extension cord into a light socket that is stupidity.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Replacing Electrical Switches

...and a green ground...

One point of interest, you have green-insulated ground wires? Those are not allowed up here, our basic house-wiring cable (14/2) has two conductors (usually a black and a white), and by code a BARE copper ground wire. Other larger cable also has a bare copper ground....I think #8 and larger is twisted strand.

 

[hrdwrkingacguy]

Re: Replacing Electrical Switches

I live in Arizona and while I don't deal with residential HVAC anymore(EVER), I have done millions of dollars worth of residential retrofit and new construction installations...I have never and will never be a electrician, but I know that every bathroom in every new house here is required to have the stuff around the sinks GFCI protected...My sisters house, just built a year and a 1/2 ago failed an inspection while it was being built for the GFCI's in the bathroom and laundry room...I don't know all the codes and I honestly don't care to know...All I know is every place is different...While I was at Luke AFB working as a chiller technician, you weren't aloud to use romex for anything every piece of wire on the base is in conduit and has a dedicated green ground wire...That is Luke, and it is the DoD's and Corp of Engineers rules, in most of the commercial/industrial work I do bare copper ground wires don't exist and romex is pretty rare except in older buildings...

P.S. In my bathroom just 5 minutes ago I hit the test on the GFCI and it took out the bathroom fans, shower light and my closet, and all the switches on the vanity...The one downstairs takes out the shower light, the fan and the kids jack and jill bathroom upstairs shower light and fan and their switches by the vanity...My house might be weird but that's how it is here...

 

[hrdwrkingacguy]

Re: Replacing Electrical Switches

Sorry to double post but I have a lot more respect for Canada's building practices then I do ours...HGTV and DIY channel seem to show a lot of construction in Canada and the trades need way more schooling and apprenticeship then we do here...Any idiot with a truck and the ability to show 4 years exp and pass a 100 question test can call himself an HVAC company...There are like 1700 companies here in AZ and 90% of them suck...

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Replacing Electrical Switches

you weren't aloud to use romex for anything every piece of wire on the base is in conduit and has a dedicated green ground wire...That is Luke, and it is the DoD's and Corp of Engineers rules, in most of the commercial/industrial work I do bare copper ground wires don't exist and romex is pretty rare except in older buildings...

Green insulated conductor In conduit....OK, same as up here after all.