Repropping my cabin cruiser.

hwsiii

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Re: Repropping my cabin cruiser.

When you test the tachs turn the switch on the back of the tach 4 or 5 times, some of the time they get corrosion at the contacts and that skews the RPMS. By moving it back and forth you can remove the corrosion and sometimes they start working right again. I forgot to mention this earlier, sorry.


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rs2k

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Re: Repropping my cabin cruiser.

Well, the tachs are correct. They are right on the money all across the board. I am getting 3850 RPM at 45 MPH at full throttle. 2900 RPM gives me 30 MPH 3200 gives me 35 MPH and 3400 gives me 40 MPH. My hand held inductive tach agrees 100% with my boat's tach. The new props make syncing the engines very easy. I can do it by ear now.

My starboard out drive broke while out at the lake today. The engine spins but the prop won't. I hear a deep rattling noise coming from the out-drive. I'll be down for the count for a week or two while I get it fixed, but what do you think about going to smaller props?
 

rs2k

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Re: Repropping my cabin cruiser.

The out drive has a 1.41:1 ratio. I just confirmed that.

I was thinking that the Solas Amita 17 would give me an RPM of 4400 - 4500, but that I would need 3400 RPM to cruise at 35 MPH. and 3900 to run at 40 MPH.

What's your opinion on making that change? What about running the engines at the higher RPM to maintain my current cruise speeds? Maybe the reduced engine loads and higher RPM would end up being easier on the engines.
 

hwsiii

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Re: Repropping my cabin cruiser.

I am sorry to hear about your outdrive, I remember you mentioning that you were worried about stressing them, and it appears you were right. Since you were able to confirm the gear ratio I was able to do some real analysis on Prop slip for the old SS and the new 4 blade props. The analysis shows that by changing to the 4 blade amitas we were able to decrease your prop slip from 23% with the SS to 8% with the new amitas at WOT.

The thing that still amazes me is that we had no gain in RPM and in fact have even lost 100 RPM, even though we had a theoretical change in prop pitch of 3", that is why I had mentioned earlier about this only being a science to a point and then it becomes an art when you change from one blade geometry to another. If you could take some pictures of the new props from the sides and directly above them I would certainly appreciate it, as I would like to see the exact blade geometry of these props for future use, as I recommend them to people as an inexpensive 4 blade alternative. And do you see any cup on the trailing edge of the props and are the blades flat from the leading edge to the trailing edge or are they pretty concave.

Prop Slip

rs2kPropSlip.jpg


We now have a baseline for the amita props on your boat because we have real numbers for 19" pitch props. With this baseline if we change to 17" amitas we should have an increase of RPM to about 4,300 and I do not believe we will lose any speed because of the increase in RPM from the new props and it may be better because we are closer to the maximum operating RPM and horsepower. I also believe there is a very good chance that you will be able to plane on one engine with these props, and if you can't I may have a way to help them get the boat up to planing speed. By changing to the 17" props we will also have less stress on the engines, the low speed planing MPH should be lower as well and the fuel consumption at the midrange speeds will also go down. Since there is less stress on the motors from being overloaded they are able to use less fuel at any RPM setting. If my numbers are right you should have better speeds at the RPM you quoted in your last posting. I am sorry I didn't get it just perfect the first time, but when you change blade geometry dramatically it is an ART, not a science.

Prop Change

rs2kPropChange.jpg



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rs2k

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Re: Repropping my cabin cruiser.

Thank for the great info. You mentioned that if the 17 inch props won't do the job of making the boat plane on one engine you might have another way to do it. What are you thinking of? As low in the hole the boat still was at 2500 RPM WOT on one engine with the 19" prop I'm not sure if a 17" prop can do it. One engine just didn't have the required power at 2500 RPM to climb out, but with two engines it'll climb out at around 2200 RPM.

I found that changing props on this boat is very easy to do. The stringer lifts the out drives high enough to touch the back of the swim deck which puts the props about 6 inches below swim deck level and well above the water line. If we can't find a way to make one engine do the job with a 17" prop than I can always carry a spare 13" prop and some extra prop nuts and cotter keys to get me back home quickly if the need arises. I can get up to about 9 - 10 MPH one one prop in an emergency and 8 MPH is easy to do on one prop. That's faster than the gulf stream current, but not by much.

As far as the out drives are concerned, I did not expect one to go out so soon. The engines sounds so much better in every RPM range but the RPM never went faster than it did before and the props are lighter. I expected the new props were actually placing less stress on the out drives although I have done more WOT running than usual while testing things out. I might have logged about 5 minutes out of an hour at WOT yesterday. The out drive also gave no signs at all of failure. No funny noises, shifting problems, or anything. I had been cruising along at 2900 RPM for about 5 minutes when the engine suddenly started to over rev.

My old method of planing was as follows: Usually, I get the boat going about 8 MPH, I then fluidly raise the engines to WOT while planing. I then fluidly move the engines from WOT to the cruise throttle as I approach the speed and RPM I want. All this happens within 5 - 6 seconds and the throttle moves is a smooth manner. The throttle doesn't usually spend more than about 2 seconds at full throttle.

With the new props this happens a lot faster so I've found that just setting the engines to a few hundred RPM below cruising RPM does the job for me.
 

rs2k

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Re: Repropping my cabin cruiser.

While running at WOT and 45 MPH (trimmed for max speed) I noticed that the Power steering was overwhelmed by the force it took to turn the wheel to the right. I must need to adjust the steering tabs. Can this effect the speed or RPM of the boat?

When I trimmed the boat for WOT and 43 MPH the power steering wasn't overwhelmed, but the bow was a bit too low.
 

hwsiii

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Re: Repropping my cabin cruiser.

Theoretically, the most load put on the outdrive will be at takeoff to planing, that is when you are loading the prop up as well as the engine. You have very little forward speed and yet a lottt of load when you first start throttling up to plane and then getting to the point of transition to planing, the hump. The engine and outdrive are loaded as you are trying to get to plane and over the hump and it requires large amounts of prop thrust and that thrust is at very low water speeds which means they will either break loose (as they do when you are trying to takeoff with one engine) or they will be able to overcome it. You will notice as you are running the boat above planing speed they don't break loose when you gun the engine, and that is because there is not as much load being put on the props, as you have excellent water flow to the props because of your forward movement, the same as a race car can gun the engine more after he gets forward movement going. Most of the time that any props break loose and you are not trimmed up any on the outdrive you are loading everything there is to the maximum with the setup that you are running. The best way to get to plane and create the least stress on everything you can is to fluidly throttle up like you were talking about earlier.
You have to remember that with the new props you have a lot more surface area, which means more traction, think of it like a car that changes from street tires to racing slicks, the extra traction loads everything up much more than before. The load on the rear end and the motor happens at the time of greatest stress, at takeoff.
You have to adjust the trim tabs for the steering, but that does not affect the speed or RPM of the boat.
Changing to the new prop geometry now creates more stern lift, so that means the bow won't raise as much as it once did, which is normally a good thing when you are running in a head sea because it lets the forefoot (which usually has a lott of deadrise cut the waves, instead of when the bow is raised it lets the seas come back further on the hull and slap it and push it up making for a rougher ride, but that may not be the case with your boat.
My idea for helping the prop plane the boat with one engine was to have a prop shop drill ventilation holes in the props so they would be able to reach higher RPM without breaking loose and having to start over. It is a common practice with many of the hitech props on the market today. It may not work, but I think it will. Theoretically it will also put less load on the outdrive and motor anytime you are taking off.


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rs2k

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Re: Repropping my cabin cruiser.

Here is a large group of images I took of both the SST 14.25 x 21 x 3 OMC Prop and the 14.25 x 19 x 4 Solas Amita Aluminum prop.

http://4-ghillie.com/props/
 

hwsiii

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Re: Repropping my cabin cruiser.

Thank you for the pictures, to be stern lifting that prop sure looks like it has a bunch of Rake, but it seems to have done well at lifting your stern so it must be the right blade geometry. LOL


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rs2k

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Re: Repropping my cabin cruiser.

The props already have scratches on them so I won't be able to return them. I guess I'll get a pair of 17s and sell these guys on ebay along with my 21' SST props. Do you have a better idea?
 

rs2k

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Re: Repropping my cabin cruiser.

I got her back in the water. I took 6 people, a dog, and a full tank of fuel a few days ago. The top speed was still around 44 MPH at 3850 RPM, but the hole shot time was nearly doubled with all the extra weight sitting in the back. The lack of hole shot I understand, but why would the top speed remain unchanged with the extra weight? I don't see how, but could there be something else causing the engines to stay at 3850 - 3900?

What do you think about a 15 or 16 pitch 4-blade prop?
The Solas Amita only comes in odd numbers so I can only choose it in 15 or 17. I have a feeling 15 might over rev the out drives.

What about this 16" 4-blade Michigan Wheel Vortex prop?
http://boatpropellers.iboats.com/OM.../1369/?**********=403064280&*******=961584571
 

hwsiii

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Re: Repropping my cabin cruiser.

I don't have the answer, but I have said all along that something doesn't make sense, and the RPM never hanging still doesn't make sense. You were arrying an extra 1,000 # or more and the speed nor the RPM hanged and I still don't understand.


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rs2k

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Re: Repropping my cabin cruiser.

This is very odd. What do you think about trying to rev it up to 4400 RPM without a load?

I know for sure that the RPM and speed are correct. I have verified the speed with GPS and have verified the RPM with a hand held tach.
 

hwsiii

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Re: Repropping my cabin cruiser.

Be areful doing that there ould be bad onsequenes. I just don't understand it. an you borrow some17"pithes just to try.


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hwsiii

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Re: Repropping my cabin cruiser.

I think I found a place to take care of the problem, I should know for sure next week.


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rs2k

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Re: Repropping my cabin cruiser.

Thanks, I'll keep my eyes open for your reply.
 
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