Restoring 1974 revisited.

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

Not sure, but Merc could get 225 out of a 302, possibly the cam had something to do with that......
You can get a brand new 351 rated @ 285 from ebasic power for like $3500....
If you went to center rise mans/risers, that would solve your y pipe problems.....
It sounds like you want to go to FWC as well, so you might be redoing the engine enclosure anyway....
Everything else should bolt right up....
Just a thought.....

 

[ringmaster]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

the merc 302 i have has 351 heads on it that was another way to get power out of the 302. i use to do that when i was building mustangs it the poor mans way of putting bigger valves in a 302 head.

 

[Max Poston]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

Jim - looks like you're doing good so far. A lot more mercruisers than volvos in my part of the world. I just got back from a service job and it's 5:20 in the morning. If you will....chill out and get the motor out of the boat and I will talk you thru the repair. Forget about the 351. Modifications on the exaust hookups to the Y-pipe and also some alternator bracket mods plus the cost of flywheel, harmonic balancer and carb/distributor ,intake manifold differences start adding up FAST. .//// There is enough extra ooomph hiding in that 302 with no major mods during a rebuild that you will be suprized. Once you get the 302 out you can tear it down and see what damage has been done to it from freezing. This ain't a high buck repair until you talk to the "re builders" The 302 ford marine engine comes with a thick-walled block and 351 windsor 4 barrel heads. Its tough. You can bore it - sleeve it - or stroke it - or most combos of the above. The only failures I have seen are from neglect. This is an easy, fairly cheap repair. But if you start swapping parts you will run into problems with the internal balancing of the ford motor. I'd rather sleeve the original motor than swap 302 for a 351. Were you trying to go to fresh water cooling during this rebuild? If so - why? Just wondering. Email me and lets talk on the land line - Max

 

[mkast]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

We replaced a 302 with a 351 in a 1976 Hammond 19.5 ft.
Hammond was the guy who started Glastron Boats.
He sold it off, then went to Texas and started Hammond Boats.
The exhaust was changed to center risers, via EBay.
All accessories from the 302 went on the 351; flywheel, starter, alternator, marine distributor came from EBay, $45, plus shipping, bell housing and coupler from the 302.
Marine water pump via NAPA.
Intake manifold is not interchangeable.
We used an Edelbrock Dual Port, old technology, makes good low end torque, EBay. The marine 600 Holley came from EBay, the throttle kit and rebuild kit came from Summit Racing. The alternator bracket is the same.
The factory (Hammond) offered the 351, in a two barrel version, 233 hp. as an optional engine.
If you go this route, I would suggest the stern drive be overhauled, a drive shower added, and change the gear ratio from 1.50:1 to 1.32 to 1.
In a 255 hp version, Mercruiser used the 1.32 to 1 gear ratio.
Best power package change I've ever been a part of, next to mine of
of course.
If you look at http://mercruiserparts.com/
you can cross reference parts between the 302 and the 351. Look at MIE
(Inboard) 351.

 

[mkast]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

http://www.classicglastron.com/

A 351 may have been offered in 1974. Research it.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

Jim, a great boat to put back on the water but IMHO, a 351w would be too heavy, too tall and too wide for your boat. I'd stick with the 302. Why push around an extra 75 lbs and rearrainge your back end, when their are great options for your 302/5.0?

After spending 4k building a 331 stroker for my 20 ftr, then having it stolen I was out of cash so I did the following. It proved to be such a huge improvement on my original 190 hp motor, I should have done it in the first place.

For $900.00 I got a Ford Explorer 5.0 liter salvage yard motor, with 35k miles on it.(just broken in) They have Fords latest, greatest, best breathing heads, the GT40P's. It has 9.0:1 compression, yours has 8.0:1. (still run regular) I stripped off the fuel injection, added a Edelbrock 2121 performer manifold, used a Holley 600 cfm 4bbl, had Delta Cams (oh did I mention, it is also a roller cam block) grind me a '69 351w cam and installed the appropiate size 50 0z balance flywheel and front balancer. (roller blocks are 50 oz external balance, not the 28 oz like your older 302)

This motor scares me to death when I open the throttle, I still have not run it flat out. I think the stolen stroker would have been way more than was practical.

The other nice thing about this motor is the Ford rotated the plugs down and straight out on the GT40P heads (better firing angle). This gives hot rodders a headache because it points them right into the headers. With the upturning marine water jacket mani's you can now use a a ratchet and socket to pull the plugs instead of a box end wrench.

 

[EricR]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

Boomyal, that thing is beautiful!

The great thing about a FWC conversion is you don't have to pull the heads and put in SS head gaskets or worry about installing brass freeze plugs.

Of course, those will cry "It's not a marine engine! You can't do that! It defies the laws of physics and the earth is going to turn backward OMG!!!"

 

[kalla man]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

boomyal, looks sharp!! you need a clear plexiglass doghouse to keep everyones drool off of it... maybe something like a ferrari

 

[oops!]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

hate to be the bearer of bad news but if the thing froze the exaust manifolds are prob toast too! pressure test them. had two years of greif over that one and marine manifolds arent cheep!
if your going auto engine, make sure the dist is marine. the dwell is way different!
Auto just aint ment to run WOT and hold it for two hours.
also if you use 351 heads on a 302 you might run into cooling problems as the water jackets may not be the same. make sure the head gaskets dont block the water journals. ive seen this mod on many a hot rod and only seen it done right once! lots of cooling problems!

and just a thought...if you are looking at modifiying a 302. why not go for the 351 and mod it? better way more power than you need, and run half throttle than too little power and run a gas guzzeling WOT
good luck. keep us posted!

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

You really did a nice job on this one. Is it using a Volvo Penta Outdrive?

I have been removing the stern drive. Everything is coming out with great difficulty, unfortunately. Nothing easy, you know.

I did free up the engine by shooting a bunch of Kreen in each cylinder and am now interested in taking out the engine and seeing what happened.

Jim

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

Boomyal, that thing is beautiful!

The great thing about a FWC conversion is you don't have to pull the heads and put in SS head gaskets or worry about installing brass freeze plugs.

Of course, those will cry "It's not a marine engine! You can't do that! It defies the laws of physics and the earth is going to turn backward OMG!!!"

All true Eric. I never pulled the heads on this unit because the FWC unit had been installed on it's predecessor. Needless, I did not have to worry about the the freeze plugs and head gaskets.

All I can say is that there are countless motors available, like this one, at very favorable prices. They are the last and best that Ford produced.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

boomyal, looks sharp!! you need a clear plexiglass doghouse to keep everyones drool off of it... maybe something like a ferrari

Thanks kalla, maybe I should just make a plexiglass insert in the dog house.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

You really did a nice job on this one. Is it using a Volvo Penta Outdrive?

OMC Stringer Jim. My fav! The rest are too complex. Too many belows, gimbals, cables, bearings, boots, etc, etc. My unit is now 27 y/o. I just spent 1200$ to have it gone thru on general principal. Don't need to sell the virtues of it 'cause they are no longer made and much reviled by many on this forum.

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

Yeah, after working on this 33 year old boat makes me feel like I am swimming upstream. Still, the hull is in good shape and like you, I seem to enjoy the challenge.

Right now seems to be the ugly part of the challenge. Lots of work ahead.

Jim

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

I made this support jig, pulled out the pivot pins, shift linkage, etc. Shouldn't the stern drive come out now? It doesn't seem to want to. I thought a splined shaft would just come out either taking the u-joints with it or leaving them behind. There seems to be a lot of resistance and it is hard to get much leverage. What's going on here?

I have this worthless manual that just gives me a few paragraphs.

Jim



Jim

 

[ringmaster]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

there is no worries about the 302 and 351 head compairason they use the same head gasket. the only difference is bigger valves and ports thats all other then that they are the same casting shape even the cooling holes. swapped alot of heads and never ran into a problem.

 

[a70eliminator]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

Yep same here, it's when you attemp the 351 cleveland head swap, poor mans Boss 302, thats where the water jacket porting needs modifying.

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

Just a reminder--1974 Glasstron 302 Ford Volvo.

I took a couple of days off to work on my developing shop getting ready to lift the engine. Now I am going to do some more research on the engine. I like the post on the 351 heads mounted on a 302 to improve breathing. I am also interested in exhaust manifolds, etc to get some more power out of the engine. Also in fresh water cooling. Let me know if you have any ideas.

Some ideas so far:

Tear down the engine and see what I have. 351 heads? Engine rebuild? New long block?

Carbs or EFI. I rounded up a cheap Mercruiser EFI complete less intake manifold 1993 version. I may use it. If not I will put it back on ebay. Also, I noticed my carb has no J-Tubes (came new that way). If I stick to a carb will that be a problem (450 CFM Holley)?

Marine exhaust. I have heard that the stock ones are very restrictive.

This time I am looking for a good engine manual. My old Clymer manual was a disaster?

Jim

P.S. My wife says that I get my exercise by doing everything the hard way.

 

[ringmaster]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

just take the valve covers off you may already have 351 heads on there like i said in another post the 302/351 head look exactly the same on the out side.

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

Pardon a stupid question, but how would I know the difference?

Jim