rooster tail and rpms

Ashton.r

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Jul 21, 2015
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Hey guys im a little stumped right now. my boats an 18ft bass boat that weights 1060 pounds usually i run with myself and one other person, so with gear and loaded up i would say roughly 1700lbs. i have a mercury black max 150hp on there. when i originally bought the 150 it had a 23 pitch prop that had more of an big ear shaped blades. i ran it on the boat for a while but had a garbage holeshot and it was stainless steel. on average i hit 50-60mph depending on how much weight due to gas etc, this was at a 5600 rpm mark. now i have switched over to a turning point hustler prop which is a more aggressive style prop and is vented for holeshot. its also aluminum which i rather because i run in rocky lakes (canadian shield) so i rather the piece of mind if i somehow ever run on a rock, that the prop will be absorbing most of the damage. the holeshot is a ton better but now i have an rpm and rooster tail problem. basically im throwing a massive rooster tail way past my cowling but at low rpms, its hard for me to get past 5000 without porpoising. i understand that trimming out too much is causing my rooster tail problem but i have to trim out to get the rpms higher. im not entirely sure if my assumption is correct but heres my plan this weekend. im thinking that my jackplate is too low. i want to higher the jackplate 1/4 inch test and repeat. i feel that if i higher the jackplate i wont have to trim out nearly as much keeping the prop from wasting energy throwing water up but instead throw water back to push the boat forward. i think this would result in a smaller rooster tail as well as reduce raising the bow too much resulting in porpoising. as well as allow me to have higher rpms because in theory raising the jackplate allows for higher rpms. im by no means any professional (which is evident lmao) im just trying to learn and figure things out so any help or advice from experienced dudes out there will be greatly appreciated.

tight lines
 

Bondo

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im not entirely sure if my assumption is correct but heres my plan this weekend. im thinking that my jackplate is too low. i want to higher the jackplate 1/4 inch test and repeat.

Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,..... Let Us know how the tests work out,.....
 

Sea Rider

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Distribute deck weight evenly, go full hammer down, once combo is on plane on flat calm, no wind water cond, trim OB for combo to ride parallel to water level at speed. You should achieve a rear flat undisturbed middle wake. If having water splashes at back or over transom, OB sits too low, need to raise it till the splashes dissapears completely. OB should pull wot revs a bit.

Happy Boating
 

Texasmark

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You are headed in the right direction to cure your problem. The AV plate is apparently in the water when at WOT, trimmed. This gives you a lot of leverage with respect to rooster and boat "attitude". Once you jack her up, and ? may not be enough, you will get the plate out of the water and in doing so, not have as much control on bow lift as the Hustler is a bow lifting prop (raked) as it is, and you will be able to align your thrust better with your direction of travel. Both the susceptibility to porpoise and generate a rooster will diminish. The only remaining question is, what happened to your speed in the process. You should have more wetted area which is drag. You should have better prop to water contact so "prop slip" should be reduced which is enhancement. In short, they may cancel out or you will get a + or - in your performance.
 

Ashton.r

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Jul 21, 2015
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Hey guys really appreciate the responses! So i think my theory was right as i made some success. I re measured my prop to pad which was 3.5 from there i jacked it up half an inch because i know 3 below pad id still have plenty of water. The boat now performs way better. My hole shot is a ton better for one. The rooster tail died down quite a bit, the porpoising vertually went away (zero at high speeds just on lower speeds high trim). The chine walk cut down a bit and cornerning and turns feel alot better. Overall it was a success. The rpms went up to 5400 if i really trimmed out. It got to 5200 easily a hell of a lot easier than before. Mph im hitting a consistent 54 gps. My next plan is to install a damn water pressure gauge and jack her up another 1/4 inch because i want to hit the 5400 rpms a little easier so i can make sure im getting peak horse power. I just wanna make sure i have adequate water pressure if i go up another 1/4-half inch. But all in all some symptoms were cured and some where a hell of alot improved.
 
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Sea Rider

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Can you post a pic of middle to lower leg shot sideways when combo is out of the water, pic must show both rear upper and lower plates. Don't need to install a water pressure tester to check if OB sits at the sweet transom height. You must dial a proper height by visual check, not with fancy instruments...LOL!!

Happy Boating
 

Ashton.r

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Jul 21, 2015
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I should beable to get some pics this up coming weekend! But the rear upper and lower plates youre referring to the anti cav. plate or? Thanks
 

Texasmark

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Hey guys really appreciate the responses! So i think my theory was right as i made some success. I re measured my prop to pad which was 3.5 from there i jacked it up half an inch because i know 3 below pad id still have plenty of water. The boat now performs way better. My hole shot is a ton better for one. The rooster tail died down quite a bit, the porpoising vertually went away (zero at high speeds just on lower speeds high trim). The chine walk cut down a bit and cornerning and turns feel alot better. Overall it was a success. The rpms went up to 5400 if i really trimmed out. It got to 5200 easily a hell of a lot easier than before. Mph im hitting a consistent 54 gps. My next plan is to install a damn water pressure gauge and jack her up another 1/4 inch because i want to hit the 5400 rpms a little easier so i can make sure im getting peak horse power. I just wanna make sure i have adequate water pressure if i go up another 1/4-half inch. But all in all some symptoms were cured and some where a hell of alot improved.

When you get all that done, you will be looking into something else to make it run better and faster. Grin We are never satisfied, are we?
 

Sea Rider

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I should beable to get some pics this up coming weekend! But the rear upper and lower plates youre referring to the anti cav. plate or? Thanks


Yes, both horizontal plates, small upper water deflector plate and anticav plate...Some OB's have small distance between both plates, some more, that's what want to check.

Happy Boating
 

Ashton.r

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Jul 21, 2015
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Texasmark i swear speed is a drug man we really always do want more. To be honest though im not sure im im going to continue on with this boat i did notice a little pressure on the transom thats scaring me a bit it seems like the corner of the jackplate has dug a tiny bit into the transom oddly enough because the jack plate was bolted down flush and tight. Im going to make sure my transom is good to go. If not i may replace it but im not sure about that all process because i dont know how to remove the boat cap or if the boat with "bow" when i remove it. Im not even entirely sure if even need to remove the cap because the way the transom is it has like a beffier step out. Hard to explain but right where the motor mounts it extends off the transom a couple inches. Idk if this will be the only spot to replace. Ill make another post if it turns out the transom doesnt sound solid or drill a small hole and check rhe shavings.
 

Texasmark

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With what you are running you surely want a good solid transom.

Little humor: Back in the '60's I knew of a guy who built his own boat, about 14-16' wood runabout, side console sort of thing. Bought a new Fat 60 Evinrude V4 for it too. Takes it down to the gulf for it's maiden voyage....as the story goes, cheering section on the dock ready for the big moment.......hammering down on the throttle. Big laugh.

Well it didn't go as planned as the fat 60 had a lot more thrust than the transom was built to tolerate so it conveniently just broke loose from the gunwale (top) and the NEW engine fell into the SALT water only hanging by the cables and controls.

Hope you make it ok with yours.
 

Ashton.r

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that sucks man! lol he should have reinforced the damn thing good. ive taken precautions when i got the boat the transom was solid then, now im just a little skeptic i tend to be paranoid about transoms i have no idea why. but i had fabricated two bars that strap the transom in to the boat in addition to the oem straps. these was go over the back wash and tie into the top cap where theres solid connection between top cap and hull. i did this because sometimes the lakes around me blow up massive waves with a slight bit of wind, i wanted insurance to make sure in rough conditions the transom isnt going to be flexing beyond its capacity.
 

Texasmark

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that sucks man! lol he should have reinforced the damn thing good. ive taken precautions when i got the boat the transom was solid then, now im just a little skeptic i tend to be paranoid about transoms i have no idea why. but i had fabricated two bars that strap the transom in to the boat in addition to the oem straps. these was go over the back wash and tie into the top cap where theres solid connection between top cap and hull. i did this because sometimes the lakes around me blow up massive waves with a slight bit of wind, i wanted insurance to make sure in rough conditions the transom isnt going to be flexing beyond its capacity.

Sounds like a good idea to me. When I buy a boat the transom is one of the first things I check. I let the engine down to vertical (if not already there) grasp the cowling in a bear hug, put my feet on the AV plate and jump up and down. If the transom even thinks about moving I move on.
 

Ashton.r

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Reviving an old thread forgive me lol. Im a little stumped here. So ive been jacking my motor up trying to get 5500rpms. Currently im at 2.75 below and my rpms still at 5000. Its hard to get higher quick unless im running a very long stretch itl eventually go to around 5200ish. The props a turning point hustler 23p. Im not happy with the water pressure at this hieght to be honest, its at 13 psi. Is 13psi too low for an 84 150? Im thinking to drop the motor back down till i get 15psi. Im also planning to change the impeller soon. What im stumped about is the props a 23p...the 150 should have no problems spinning this. Same motor on similar style bass boats run 25p so whats the deal? I know the 23p hustler has a good bit of cup for bow lift, ive heard it acts like a 24 not 23. Im hesitant to drop to a lower pitch because i dont want to loose too much speed (the child in me loves speed lol). Im getting 51 gps. Best yet my roosters still fairly big its a little above cowling.

If i jack the motor higher will it require less trim to get the boat on the pad? Maybe im still too low and im compensating with trimming up to get rpms?
 

QBhoy

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Are rooster tails desirable on bass boats ? Never been in one and not really known in the uk.
I know that if I rooster tail my boat it slows down loads.
 

Ashton.r

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Jul 21, 2015
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From what ive researched a rooster that is about cowl height is a good rooster for a bass boat. Here's a video. This is me getting 5000rpms. Looking at it i see spray shooting from the anti cav plate. I could be wrong lol. Notice how high i have to trim to get to 5000 rpms. Maybe the motor is still too low? I really cant see this 150 not spinning a 23p.
 

Ashton.r

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Jul 21, 2015
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Im having trouble getting the video up....swear this doesnt happen often lol.
 

jimmbo

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A true Rooster Tail occurs from partially submerged prop blades, when the engine propshaft/thrust is parallel to direction of travel. It is wasted energy as the water is being directed upward not backward, but is hard to avoid. Overtriming will also produce a similar look, is really wasteful of thrust, but it can, in some cases, raise the bow higher reducing drag. Other times the prop loses it grip and the boat slows down. Not all props are usable at high trim angles and/or transom heights

Edit. Watched video, setup looks good, it looks a little over trimmed. It would be nice if videos taken from a boat running longside, then people could see how height/trim affect the hull.
 
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