Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

my05hammer

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
36
OK. Got the boat for cheap cause the previous owner couldn't get the motor to run right under power.

Its a Johnson 115ETL77.

Here is what is happening with the motor. It didn't run when I got it. The cylinder pressures check good to almost new. I got it to run like a banshee on the trailer. I get it in the water and at about 25% throttle it falls flat on its face and dies. This motor does NOT have the over temp safety built in that will limit the rev's when overheated (or temp switch goes bad).

Here is what I have done so far.
1) Verified that timing pointer was set correctly.
2) Changed the plugs (gap set at 0.040).
3) Set the min and max timing, 4* and 28* BTDC respectively.
4) Lifted the #1 wire off of the power pack and installed a kill switch on the engine to eliminate any boat wiring issues.
5) Replaced water pump and housing.
6) Relocated the tell tail up to the boss on #1 cylinder.
7) Tore open the carbs, replaced the needle and seats but did nothing else because they looked clean.
8) Replaced rectifier because the wires were in bad shape.
9) Pulled the block mounted fuel pump, plugged the port and replaced it with a universal electric pump for a carburated vehicle.

What in the heck could possibly be going on with this engine? I have good spark, the timing is correct, and it has fuel. I spoke with my dad (an awesome old school mechanic), and he and I were thinking that maybe the high speed orifices might be plugged. I just dropped the fuel bowls and I don't see any jets or orifices in the bowls. Only the tube that comes down from the venturi and it is clear as well as all of the ports that are in it. Is it possible that this problem is being caused by a plugged low speed jet?

Fore crying out loud, It ran like a banshee yesterday in the driveway, then today after work I dropped the motor in the water at the boat launch and fired it up only to have the problem again. So it is obviously a problem under load. I pulled the boat from the boat launch, drove home with it, then after about 30 minutes in the garage, I turned the key and the darn thing popped right off.

I am starting to become very frustrated with this. :mad:
 

my05hammer

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
36
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

Update: I tore the carbs off again and the orifices were clear for the idle, low speed, and high speed jets. I also re-checked the spark and it is a strong blue consistent spark from base to full advance on all 4 plugs while cranking it over.
 
Last edited:

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

Do not rev the motor when it's not in the water, this can be very costly, plus it can rev in neutral easily even when it's not running right.

When it starts to die try pumping the squeeze bulb in the fuel line, if this helps it may be the fuel pump or suction side air leak. If that doesn't help then try spraying some pre-mixed fuel into the carb, if it helps check the carbs again because its not getting gas. If it doesn't help then you may need to start looking for an electrical problem.
 

kenmyfam

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
14,392
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

Dump that electric fuel pump to begin with and put what was intended for the motor on.
Accident waiting to happen.
 

my05hammer

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
36
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

If there is an issue with the reeds could they emulate a suction side leak?
 

my05hammer

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
36
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

I have taken the carbs off and the fuel passages for idle and low speed are clean. I also removed the plugs from the fuel bowls and there does not seem to be any removable orifices in the fuel bowls, are there supposed to be any jets there? I do not see any high speed jets at all other than the little hole in the tube up in the venturi area. Where are, or are there any high speed jets?

I changed the plugs and the old ones were all wet with fuel. Float level is perfect. Needles and seats are new. Is there any way to tell if the fuel level is too high in the float bowls?
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

I have no clue what type of fuel pump you used, but some can over power the float needle and flood the motor, a pressure regulator is needed to limit the pressure.

Unless you shut the motor down right when it died while at the 25% throttle setting where it was having problems, the condition of the plugs could be unrelated to this issue.

Have you done the tests (squeezing the bulb, spraying fuel into the carb) to see if they help?

I'm not sure where the high speed jets are in your carbs, but some are located behind the drain plug in the float bowl. You need a screwdriver with the correct shape to reach them.
 

my05hammer

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
36
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

I will be reinstalling the factory fuel pump since it was in great shape and most likely not the issue here.

I removed the plugs in the float bowls and saw no jets in there so I will be calling a Johnson Tech up in Savanna to find out what the deal is. As far as I can see there is a straight shot from the bowls up the tube into the venturi that is unregulated.
 

my05hammer

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
36
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

I found out that there ARE supposed to be 2 orifice plugs per bowl and mine are missing.
 

boobie

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
20,826
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

DUH.LOL. Glad you found the prob. It's always the little things that get you. Been there and done that.
 

my05hammer

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
36
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

Upon further inspection with a bright flashlight I see that my fuel bowls do have the jets in there. They are way in the ports and cant be seen without a bright light. The one thing that I did do before I looked at them was blew out the passages with compressed air. I wish now that I had checked the main jets for obstructions first. They are clear now. I also blew out the idle and low speed jets/ports. Hopefully early in the morning tomorrow I will be a happy boater on the Rock River. We'll see. (Fingers crossed and a prayer sent to the big guy)
 

my05hammer

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
36
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

Ok, I reinstalled the factory fuel pump, the carbs are in perfect working order, and this motor still refuses to run past 20% throttle in the water. It purrs like a kitten at idle and runs from idle to 20% PERFECTLY. I removed the cylinder heads and the motor appears to be in PERFECT condition other than there was in all four combustion chambers, black gas puddled up with a little gray mixed in. Is this motor fragged?.

I have a very strong consistent blue spark on all 4 plugs while cranking it over.

My brother is insistent that its the stator. But if it was the stator, wouldn't it have a weak spark while cranking? I believe that the timer base and power pack are good because on the trailer with no load the motor will rev to 5K (muffs in place on hose of course).
 

my05hammer

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
36
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

Not sure if I stated this before but the power head has been recently rebuilt and has never been in the water since rebuilt. So I will be checking all of the grounds to make sure that they have good connections. I have read on the forums here of others experiencing the same issue with bad grounds.
 

1946Zephyr

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 21, 2008
Messages
5,556
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

Leave the fuel system be. The problem is electrical. Problematic electrical components a lot of times will run fine in the driveway, but falter on the lake. This is because the higher humity on the lake allows for leaking coils and other electrical problems to arc out on the metal. I would completely check your electrical connections and make sure they're totally clean and look over the coils and make sure there are no cracks. Check the spark plug leads and make sure both ends of the connections are not rusty. If it still offers problems then I would check the stator and make sure everything is in good order.

A fuel problem will act the same on land as it does in the water. Electrical problems will act up more on the water and run fine at home.
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

Again...do not rev the motor in neutral or out of the water, it can self destruct. Out boards have a habit of revving on their own after a certain point and turning off the key or throttling back will have no effect. This doesn't happen frequently, but it does happen often enough to be an issue.

If the motor slowly dies it is typically a fuel issue, if it dies instantly like someone flipped a switch, then look for an electrical problem.
 

my05hammer

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
36
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

Thanks guys for all the tips. I do believe I have found the issue. The main lug on the motor where the black cable from the battery connects has a couple of other wires on it and the retaining nut was tight, but the lug where it screws into the block was loose and not even finger tight. :eek:

I tightened the ground and ran an extra wire from the electicals to the lug so that they do not have to rely on the block to complete the circuit. The block is still used, I just added the wire for safe measure. I also checked all the other connections. All look good now.

My new head gaskets will be here Friday and I will be on the river Saturday morning once more to check it out.

If this ground lug doesn't fix the issue, I am going to either sell it whole or part it out then I am going to put my back up Chrysler 105 on the boat and sell the Johnson.

Fingers crossed!!!
 

AlTn

Commander
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
2,813
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

are you planning on running the engine using the breakin procedure?..you should if it hasn't been run since the rebuild
 

my05hammer

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
36
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

I should look to see if it is in the Johnson Manual. But yes, that is a great point.
 

my05hammer

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
36
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

Once again THANKS to this forum for the help!! I got the motor running great today. The ground was bad on the block. Fixed that and then the control stand caught fire. So I disconnected the boat's wiring harness and installed a kill switch, power switch and start button right on the motor. Runs like a top now. I was hoping to see 40 mph with it but I bet we only saw 30. It was enough to blow my ball cap right off the top of my head lol!!!

I'll fix the wiring harness this winter.

07160195185300.jpg
 

glengold

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
310
Re: Runs awesome on trailer, dies in water at 25% throttle. 1977 115hp V4 Johnson.

good job, now you should try a decarb
 
Top