Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

[smokeyblaze]

I recently forgot to put my plug in and the hydraulic pump was floating around a bit for about 5 minutes. It works fine and then just wants to click Im pretty sure all the connections are tight . I dont really think its a solenoid because when it works it go's up and down both , If it was a solenoid going bad wouldnt it only go one way or the other? Unless they both are just going bad. It stops working which is pretty often but it has its moments where it will work for hours or so trimming up and down fine. All I do to get it work is shake it for a minute. How exactly could rust damage the motor and How do I go about getting it out. Ive already put fresh 5w30 synthetic in it. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?p=1978005#post1978005

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

There are bearings, brushes, an armature and other steel things inside the motor. When these things get rusty they can't work. The armature can't spin and the brushes can't deliver current. In most cases if the the internal parts of the motor are severely rusted you trash the motor and replace it with a new one. If it's not in real bad shape take it to an automotive electric shop (starter/generator rebuilder) or an electric motor shop as they may be able to rebuild it.

 

[JB]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

I am pretty sure that at least one of those tight connections has corrosion in it.

Take them all off, clean them thoroughly and reattach.

 

[smokeyblaze]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

I took every nut off and cleaned all the connections with a wire brush, still works only half the time. Could it be a solenoid going bad? Why else would shaking the solenoid make it work?

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

Could be the solenoid. You can bypass the solenoid for testing purposes, by directly connecting the battery cable to the trim motor. If it works every time, it is likely the solenoid is bad. If not, you will need to disassemble the motor and clean it up.

 

[smokeyblaze]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

You can bypass the solenoid for testing purposes, by directly connecting the battery cable to the trim motor. If it works every time, it is likely the solenoid is bad.

Where on the trim motor do I connect the battery cable?

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

The battery cable connects to one of the large posts on the solenoid. Touch it to the other large post on the solenoid, which is where the motor connects. This takes the solenoid out of the circuit. If the motor works everytime, the solenoid is bad.

 

[smokeyblaze]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

So I'm supposed to take the hot wire from the battery off the post its on and run it to the post I have circled in the pic , Correct? Does one solenoid control both up and down or does each solenoid control one direction? Isnt the electric start solenoid inside of the big motor and not on the trim motor? Do I need to disconnect any other wires?

 

[smokeyblaze]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

Ok I found something new out...although its probably not good. While the tilt and trim was acting right and i was trimming up and down all the way , theres a bit of smoke coming from whats looks to be the two wires going inside the hydraulic pump. Anyone ever heard of this? What should I do now?

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

The solenoid is only used for trimming up. Trimming down circuit ruen thru the switch directly to the pump motor.

Smoke from the pump motor implies a short circuit, shorted windings or lots of rust and dirt. Sounds like you should disasemble and test components.

 

[smokeyblaze]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

Why do I have a total of 3 solenoids then?

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

The power trim unit might have two solenoids. Some did, although I had thought your's was the single solenoid model. Three solenoids were not used, as far as I know....

 

[smokeyblaze]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

I have two solenoids on the power trim and another solenoid for the electric start right inside the motor cowling. When it stopped working again today I tried bypassing the solenoid and It still didnt work. Is it hard to dissassemble the pump motor itself as I think the bad connection is on the inside due to the two smoking wires. These pics were taking before I cleaned everything up!

 

[smokeyblaze]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

Well I took the top off of the trim pump and this is what I saw. I put it back together and now it doesnt work at all , just clicking. I think I made things worse. What would you guys recommend? I've pretty much given up on this thing , and the serial # is faded off. All I can make out for sure is the first 4 numbers which are 7639 then there faded but it looks like it may be 5A3 from looking at previous pics i've posted . Im trying to find a replacement unit and want to make sure I'm getting the right one. I don''t really have much of a budget and I know these things aren't cheap so any help would definately be appreciated. Thanks

 

[jimg984]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

try cleaning the armature, the part that the brushes ride on and clean the brushes.... nothing lost by trying and putting back together careful........
also make sure the armature turns freely by hand while you got it open
bet it can be made to work GL

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

Disconnect the motor wires, and remove the armature and field winding. Clean everything with some wd-40, and wipe everything dry. Do not use carb cleaner. Check to see that the field winding and armature have continuity. The field should not have continuity to the case. The armature should have continuity between all the copper parts of the commutator, but not to the steel parts of the armature. Clean up the commutator with some extra fine sandpaper, and then use a knife to clean out the grooves between the parts of the commutator. The motor should have a bimetal overload (circuit breaker) mounted inside the end cap. Make sure it is clean and makes good contact. Put a bit of grease on the end cap when you reassemble. Make sure the armature end mates to the pump mechanism. Replace the motor brushes if necessary.

If you have an issue, the cheapest solution is to either get a used unit, or have the motor rebuilt by a starter shop. There are aftermarket pump and resvoir units available, but you need to look carefully. Your pump's armature is longer than some of the replacements, which will therefore not mate with your pump.

 

[smokeyblaze]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

Well I took it apart again and pieces started falling apart..Then I used super glue to try and get it back in place cleaned the armature up and reassembled. It worked the first time i trimmed it down and then when I attempted to trim it back up It puffed some smoke out as soon as I pushed the trim button. I tried it 3 more times after that and the same thing happened. Then I noticed the ground going to the top of the pump was loose so I tightened it down and tried again and then it would only click...What should I do now since I have the broken pieces and all I doubt anyone would want to try and rebuild it for me? Things aren't looking good. Anyone know where I can find a used power trim unit that will match up with my old merc?

 

[smokeyblaze]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

I didn't have any luck finding even a new unit with that serial #

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

Blaze, It sounds like the armature or field are shorted.

Check out the ARCo aftermarket trim motors. Westmarine stocks these. You want the one with the motor and top of the resvoir are sold together. I show the part number for the entire pump is 92975A32. A google search yielded 236 hits and shows replacement pumps as well as motors are available from iboats, Boatnet.com, bellrpg.net and others. Good luck in your search.

 

[smokeyblaze]

Re: Rust in Motor or Bad Solenoid?

Blaze, It sounds like the armature or field are shorted.

Check out the ARCo aftermarket trim motors. Westmarine stocks these. You want the one with the motor and top of the resvoir are sold together. I show the part number for the entire pump is 92975A32. A google search yielded 236 hits and shows replacement pumps as well as motors are available from iboats, Boatnet.com, bellrpg.net and others. Good luck in your search.

Ok Thanks Chris , I found the Sierra 18-6763 on Iboats for 229 bucks http://www.iboats.com/Mercury_Marine_92975A32_replacement_parts/dm/view_id.467002--dz.51261?kcid=92975a32|1997023069 and It looks like this is the lowest price I can find. I feel like you know what your talking about and If your pretty sure this unit will work then I'll go ahead and order it. So I will only need one solenoid on the new setup , correct? It looks like the new assembly is plastic instead of metal , which makes no difference to me. Hopefully I will be able to wire it up myself instead of paying 80 bucks an hour for what the nearest boat shop said was "probably a trim relay" . What do you guys think , is it pretty easy to wire this joker up? Im guessing the pump I had was not the original that came with the boat?