Safe Boating,, how close is too close

[Lion hunter]

Re: Safe Boating,, how close is too close

Thanks for that info! Sorry to take it off topic a bit though. I just have never had that experience. I can see why alot of people press for boating classes when you have to operate in those conditions.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Safe Boating,, how close is too close

Personally I view channels and rivers the same. Many of our local rivers have gone to extensive areas of posted No Wake because of the amount of traffic.

Beefer, I can clearly see the traffic lane in your picture and could vision still safely fishing the wider area and still be away from the actual lane. Do those channels have navigation marker bouys?

Though from what I've experienced around here lately I could also envision being out of the lane and still getting buzzed by some of the idiots we have operating boats on this lake.

I am not one to normally advocate more regulation but after what I've experiences the past couple years I'm beginning to change my mind. At times it gets so bad I would even accept a property tax increase if it would put the patrol boats out every day.

 

[Beefer]

Re: Safe Boating,, how close is too close

Yes, the channel is clearly marked with markers. I can almost guarantee you wouldn't get buzzed outside of the channel, avg depth is <1' at low tide, to about 4' at high. Nobody ventures outside the channel at speed, and those who do, only do it once.

Most of the Narrows is a No Wake area, with a small section of "Normal Safe Operation" just south of the closeup. Those boats are going about 6 knots, which is about avg in the area. We do get lots of tourists on rented boats. They're almost as much fun to watch as a launch ramp.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Safe Boating,, how close is too close

In this neck of the woods you either run with the big dogs or you stay on the porch. They don't have a 100' no-wake law and aircraft carriers, freighters and larger boats don't worry about their wakes, you do.

[//QUOTE]

Have a borther in Pasadena MD and the few times I've been out there we've been crabbin on the Magothy and charted out on the Chesapeake and I still have never witnessed the same behavior there as I have here. Thankfully these people don't have to contend with commercial traffic!

Beginning to think this is a local problem.

 

[Beefer]

Re: Safe Boating,, how close is too close

I've been thinking about it, and it may be a 'lake' problem. Boaters in lakes have a 'limited' area to boat in, so there could be a subconscious thought process that they think that there just isn't enough room to move around. I'll guess that most lakes have a similar problem.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Safe Boating,, how close is too close

BEEFER, I think I'm leaning more towards your previous statement that they just don't realize what there wake is doing or just don't care and yeah I believe it's more a "lake" problem.

Still think I'd like to see the Water Patrol spending more time on the water and less time parked at the Police Station before some poor sap gets seriously hurt..

 

[25thmustang]

Re: Safe Boating,, how close is too close

This comes up a lot with me. I boat in a semi narrow river. It is littered with No wake zones. A lot of times small boats will drift and fish, or anchor and swim along the areas of the river where there is not a no wake designation. A lot of the time I will drop off plane and slide by. There have been occasions where I don't see the need to. I would think if your "parked" along a non no wake zone in a semi narrow river, you shouldn't expect every boater to slow and go past you.

 

[shrew]

Re: Safe Boating,, how close is too close

I think Bondo has posted the most acurate answer to date. Keep in mind that each law will vary by state. I looked up the boating regs for NH and Mass (because that is what I happen to have in my office). These came directly from the rule book and copied verbatum.

NH:

"Unsafe passage is not maintaining a proper speed or distance while operating a vessel of while towing a person on water skis or any similar device. Specifically, the following operations are illegal:

Operating a vessel at greater than headway speed if within 150 ft. of:

swimmers in the water
other vessels
floats or rafts
permitted swimming areas
docks or mooring fields
the shoreline


Massachusetts:

Improper Speed or Distance is not maintaining a proper speed and/or distance while operating a vessel. Specificall, it is illegal to operate any vessel:

At a distance from other vessels or at a speed that exceeds safe and reasonable limits: given the waterway traffic; marked speed limits; visibility, wind, water, and current conditions; and the proximity of navigational hazzards.

At greater than 45 miles per hour on any inland waters of Massachusetts, except areas posted otherwise

At any speed within:

150 ft. of shorelines used as swimming areas
75 feet of floats or markers that designate swimming areas

At a rate of speed that creates a wake that causes damage, injury or excessive rocking to other vessels, rafts or floats.


"Headway Speed" is the minimum speed at which a vessel may be operated and maintain steering, but not to exceed 6 MPH.

At more than headway speeed if:

Within 150 - 300 feet of shorelines used as swimming areas

Within 150 of Marina's, ramps, rafts or floats

Within 150 ft. of swimmers

Vision is obscured by bridges, bends in the waterway, or by any other reason

Operating in a channel, unless channel markers state that higher speeds are allowed.


So, to address a couple of comments/questions. No, it does not seem to matter if the boat is smaller, in a channel, anchored, moored or drifting. You cannot be closer than the distance in the rule book at greater than headway speed. This applies to all bodies of water (fresh and salt). It doesn't matter if the shoreline is habited or not.

The best answer is to refer to the section of boating rule book for the state you're boating in called "Unlawful Operation".

 

[lakegeorge]

Re: Safe Boating,, how close is too close

Regardless where you boat, just remember, you are responsible for your wake, period.

If your fishing and someone comes to close just cast your lure at them, they usually get the message after that.

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Safe Boating,, how close is too close

Regardless where you boat, just remember, you are responsible for your wake, period.

If your fishing and someone comes to close just cast your lure at them, they usually get the message after that.

Don't even get people started about that. Should I start a new thread about the idiots who fish in channels? (Either from a boat or on shore)

 

[Mordekai]

Re: Safe Boating,, how close is too close

What about the idiots that fish or just drift in the middle of a narrow travel way in the middle of everyone's way? Why should I slow down when they're the one being inconsiderate?

 

[Philster]

Re: Safe Boating,, how close is too close

You people with your laws... and your rules... regulations.... guidelines. BAH!

MEANINGLESS -- absolutely meaningless -- when local practice/culture/enforcement come into play. Come to the East Coast and you'd be pressed to make sense of any '100-foot no wake' law, ESPECIALLY in the Intercoastal Water Way (ICW). I have the Coast Guard and Marine Police navigating the same darn marked channel doing absolutely NOTHING about the 100-foot rule. It simply does not exist here -- Maybe on paper, but not in the real world.

The ICW: Know the markers and also realize the ICW is less than 50' wide at points. Some folks fish dead center in the channel, and then someone else right near them. It's like stopping your car in the middle of a 2-lane road, with barely enough room to get two vehicles by when there is nothing there.

Zoooooooooooooom............ there goes the Marine Police right down the ICW past some fishermen in the channel...... Wooooooosh goes the CG, right past the bozos in the channel.

The channel is barely 4' at low tide and if you don't know the waters and depend on the markers... BAM!!!! You just hit a shoal.

Laws are nice. Anarchy? Not so much.

 

[shrew]

Re: Safe Boating,, how close is too close

Philster, that is a tough one. The OP's question was, "How close it too close"? You are absolutely correct that in many area's the LEO/CG will frequently do nothing. I liken this to passing a State Cruiser on the highway doing 75mph, when the speed is posted 65 mph. Frequently the cop does nothing. Maybe he feels it's not worth his time. Maybe his personal limit is 80mph before he takes action. The same goes for when a State Cruiser rolls past you at 80 or 85 MPH on a highway posted 65mph. It's more of a do as I say, not as I do.

So, do people do operate in such a manner? sure. Does the LEO.CG operate in this manner? They sure do, I see it all the time as well. Will they act when observing another boat doing the same? Maybe

Are you breaking the rules/laws when not adhering to the rules of the local waters? Yes. Regardless of whether you get stopped or whether the LEO's themselves are disregarding the rules it themselves.

I saw a local cop run on plane through the middle of a mooring field to catch a boat that was running too close on the outside of the field itself. I had to laugh because the LEO was causing far more disruption than the original offender.

 

[Philster]

Re: Safe Boating,, how close is too close

I think the OP's question has been answered... or I wouldn't drift from the original topic.

Essentially, to tie this all together, the gist of the issue is that a good boater will do good/smart things, even in absence of a law or enforcement. Fishing in the channel is actually ok... far as I know... but it's blatantly stupid when stacked up against how people work in the real world. And the coppers ain't managing the channels like the Gestapo, so proceed with caution.

You are ultimately responsible for your safety and others. The laws offer no guarantees.

 

[Tig]

Re: Safe Boating,, how close is too close

1. How close is too close?
2. How can it be safe skiing after sunset?

2) 1/2 hour after sunset, water skiiing is illegal around here.
1) Not aware of any law, but on an empty lake 100 yds seems close to me. I do my best to not be a nuisance. Fishermen are usually more annoying than rec boaters due to the sheep and greed mentalities. Many seem to think that if they follow, crowd or get in front of you they will be in a better fishing spot. To that point I often get fed up on pickerel opening day and will go practice casting in the marsh or look for trout in lake Ontario. People will still crowd if they spot you, even if it takes binoculars.

 

[Thad]

Re: Safe Boating,, how close is too close

I really do not know how to answer this question. I have tried three times and it still does not sound right. I want to answer from the fisherman side of me in my 14' flat bottom. Yet I want to answer from the pleasure boater side of me with my 21' bowrider. I tried answering in the middle and I argue with myself. So I think the only thing I can say is it depends on the boat, the person, the attitude, the conditions, and the individual characteristic of the skipper.

I try to be courteous of fishing boats that are in primary fishing spots. I also try to be courteuos and cautious of the pleasure boaters when I am fishing. I know what it is like from both sides, and I can tell you around here, both sides can be #*$@!

I have been "buzzed" by big boats while fishing. Later in the day I usually am in a position to repay the favor. No, that does not make it right, and it is childish and stupid, but it makes me feel better. Once I was not so politely asked why I did it and I simply replied "I thought it was a game...after all, you started it this morning when you did it to me". He remembered and apologized. We are not "friends" but we share a cold every now and then.

 

[25thmustang]

Re: Safe Boating,, how close is too close

Funny to remember back to last night when a small bass boat went through my Marina at about 35 mph. It actually ended up better than when they usually go through at plowing speed with a large wake following, but it still amazes me that they think it is okay.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Safe Boating,, how close is too close

I would really like to thank everyone for your insight and comments on this subject. As I first stated my intention was not to make this a fishing vs recreaction boater debate but rather a saftey issue in general.

Yes I see fishing boaters do some stupid things that put themselves in danger and locate themselves in places that makes me wonder. I also witness skiiers practicing behavior that looks like they have total disregard for anyone else on the lake. The tubers to me seem to be even worse! I never seem to be able to judge which way they are going to go. Swerving all over and most of the time they have young children on the back.

I have been passed while underway on both sides and from all directions and the one that upsets me the most is when some one decides they need to pass then cut 100' in front of me. They look like the drivers on the exspressway cutting in and out of traffic, changing lanes just so they can be in front.

It also doesn't seem to make a difference as to what we're driving. I've seen it from bass boats, day cruisers, pontoons and PWC. As BEEFER stated, maybe it's just a lake thing!