Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

[treedancer]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

Quote Plainsman


Looks like your living in a world of hypothetical's and paranoia.


Guess maybe you didn?t bother going to and reading anything on that link I provided, if you did you would have seen pate four. Anybody else go the link and check out page four, look at the officials involve in the determination of surveillance/ acquisition of intelligence. Director of National Intelligence,(see link)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_National_Intelligence



this link a PDF file of the law.


http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:s1927es.txt.pdf



and the Attorney General Alberto (I don't recall) Gonzalas need I say more?

< The Director of National Intelligence (DNI) is the United States Government official subject to the authority, direction and control of the Presidentwho is responsible under the Intelligence Reform And Terrorist Prevention Act of 2004.>

 

[Plainsman]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

Quote JB "As for this nonsense about me flip-flopping, it is hogwash." end quote

Guess I missed that one.....

And more of willy's what if parianoa . I thought the republicans were the fear mongers.....

 

[Plainsman]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

Ok tree, what is your point concerning the law? Are you cherry picking?

As for wikipedia, I can change that to whatever I like. Do you know what a wiki is tree?

 

[treedancer]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

Quote JB


That is called probable cause and it is legal, though subject to review after the fact.


I have no problem with that, or the way it used to be done, where it was known that what your doing was illegal and we will do everything in our power to spring you.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

Quote JB


That is called probable cause and it is legal, though subject to review after the fact.


I have no problem with that, or the way it used to be done, where it was known that what your doing was illegal and we will do everything in our power to spring you.

And how in the heck are you supposed to "know" without listening?

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

I have no problem with that, or the way it used to be done, where it was known that what your doing was illegal and we will do everything in our power to spring you.

If they knew what people were doing was illegal they wouldn't need to listen in. Do you even understand the rational behind wiretaps and survelience? It isn't to find out when you are going to meet your brother at the lake to go fishing.......

Even Barney Fife knows that.....

 

[treedancer]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

Quote Plainsman


And how in the heck are you supposed to "know" without listening?


????????

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

The problem isn't the intent. The problem is the abuse. Abuses have already been discovered. Many to most abuses will never be discovered. This administration has a reputation that one might logically conclude would participate in abuses. If not them, what about the next one? Right now there's a 50/50 chance it'll be somebody you don't trust.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

The problem isn't the intent. The problem is the abuse. Abuses have already been discovered. Many to most abuses will never be discovered. This administration has a reputation that one might logically conclude would participate in abuses. If not them, what about the next one? Right now there's a 50/50 chance it'll be somebody you don't trust.

Please show me just 1 abuse willy. Bet you can't.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

And are you willing to chance another 9/11 just because of what someone "might" do with this law willy?

 

[woodrat]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

all it will take is for a democratic administration to have this power in its hands and then the right will be all about paranoia and conspiracy theories about how they are being illegally spied on by some proto-demo-fascist, or whatever other names get made up by talk radio between now and then.

but if a right winger is in the seat of power with these tools at their disposal, then the repubs and pro-W camp just gets all warm and fuzzy inside about how their brave and good president is protecting them against the brown people from foreign lands who want to kill us all because they hate freedom, and at the same time, nobly having to fight off the defeatist left wing, who would expose the nation to its enemies over some silly technicality or another, dug up by their evil lawyers.

Do I have this right, guys? I've been trying to pay close attention....

 

[PW2]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

Anybody got a better idea of how to discover what suspected terrorists are up to?

Do you think they have any rules about how they can't do something that furthers their cause?

Frankly, I stand by what I posted months ago: If it is reasonably determined that a crime or a conspiracy to commit crime may be in progress no warrant is required to investigate. That is called probable cause and it is legal, though subject to review after the fact.

I stand by the right to privacy of American citizens acting within the law. I do not believe that non-citizens that meet a hostile profile or persons hostile to US interests in other parts of the world are entitled to that right.

As for this nonsense about me flip-flopping, it is hogwash. My positions do not change and I do not dance to the tune of any sheeplike party hack or platform.

JB, I have zero problem with intelligence gathering activities. I assume we are doing them, have been doing them, and will continue to do them. Under any president.

My objection is the lack of any checks and oversight on this process. It of course has to, by it's very nature, be kept secret. That is why FISA was originally developed, so that there would be some oversight on otherwise secret activities. It's probably not perfect, but it is something.

If FISA is outdated, fine. Let's update it. Not abandon it.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. If you trust W and Gonzo implicitly fine, but it's very possible you won't trust the next person as much. This sets the precedent that anything goes, and that is a dangerous precedent, IMO.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

But JB...what if a known enemy of the state (Wanted: Dead or Alive) with the initials J and B (standing for something painfully long) is commonly known simply by his codename "JB"?

What if you are talking to a friend on the phone that wants to bring over a twelve-pack and asks "What kind of beer do you drink?" You say "I don't care, but I hate Busch!"

Then you say "My neighbor Al Kida is here. Maybe we can all get bombed together."

Give me a break.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

So far I agree with PW2.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

Please show me just 1 abuse willy. Bet you can't.

Consider your bet Lost. I gotta wonder what planet you've been living on if you missed this.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

Consider your bet Lost. I gotta wonder what planet you've been living on if you missed this.

....."The FBI in 2005 reported to Congress that its agents had delivered 9,254 national security letters seeking e-mail, telephone or financial information on 3,501 U.S. citizens and legal residents over the previous two years.....

....Mueller said the letters "were absolutely essential for us to do our job protecting America against terrorist threats." But he said the FBI also had an obligation to protect civil liberties and use the letters lawfully......."

And what is wrong with that? Did they not do it legally? How many of the Fort Dix 6 were citizens? How many of the Lackawanna 5 were citizens?

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

It doesn't matter how many were citizens... they were human beings and therefore they were victims! You simply don't get it.....

I think Willy has moved all of his investments into overseas rug manufacturers and he's waiting to really cash in!

 

[treedancer]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

Comon now Willy, you know if that isn't on Faux news it cant be for real.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

Glad to see tree is finally coming around.

Do you think my booty shorts will be OK to wear to my mandatory gay wedding?

 

[treedancer]

Re: Score One for a Return of Civil Rights

Quote Rubberfrog


Do you think my booty shorts will be OK to wear to my mandatory gay wedding?


Good morning frog. Your booty shorts look good on you, butt ?the colors are Ssooo last year .