SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

[rickdb1boat]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

I don't know about that motor, but I had a Johnson 28 HP where the driveshaft would just come right out of the lower unit. Huuummm...

 

[pursuit2460]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

Thanks for the responce reeldutch. I read the manual before I started and di it by the book until the shaft would come out of the motor. I broke the water pump housing as stated before and the lower unit droped with out a problem. So if it is true that the shaft should stay in the lower unit the it was already broken. I have been riding this boat for about 50-60 hours since they rebuilt the motor and rebuilt the lower unit and havent had a problem. It was just time to change the water pump and then thats when my problems started.

 

[pursuit2460]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

Im thinking it should come right out . The part of the shaft that goes into the lower unit looked normal it didnt look like anything was broken off or anything, it was smooth. Im not boughting you guy but are you sure about this. The shaft has splines on both ends and like I said the part that goes into the lower unit didnt look broken.

 

[pursuit2460]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

bump

 

[ob]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

There may a roll pin that couples the upper driveshaft to the lower shaft assy.Look at the end that came out of the lower unit.If there is a hole through it,then the roll pin is sheared,which will require disassembling the lower unit to remedy.

 

[pursuit2460]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

There was nothing. Like I said before the bottom off the shaft looked brand new. When metal shears you can tell. The bottom was smooth and Ive been running the boat for 2 years now after the rebuild.

 

[ob]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

Originally posted by ajc1219:<br /> There was nothing. Like I said before the bottom off the shaft looked brand new. When metal shears you can tell. The bottom was smooth and Ive been running the boat for 2 years now after the rebuild.

Two years???? Then why in the world would you start this thread asking as if you were in the process of servicing the lower unit?Maybe I'm misreading you,or we're all misreading each other.<br /><br />In any case,if the driveshaft is designed to lift from the lower driveshaft assy.(and it is) in the lower unit,I'm almost certain that there is a retainer sleeve and roll pin that couples the two.But then ,if you've been running it this way for two years,who knows.

 

[reeldutch]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

if you look at the diagram from brp you see there should be a pin and a retainer where ob is talking about.<br />if you pushed realy hard in the lower unit you might have broken something if this was installed the way it should be.<br /><br />any way to get it installed the way it should be you have to reinstall the driveshaft retainer and the pin.<br /><br />make shure to clean the splines of the shaft and give them a coat of grease on the side.<br />not to much on top<br /><br />as a said you didnt trash it but before you trash it make shure what you are doing.<br /><br />good luck

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

OB, maybe this will clear it up a bit. He's been running this motor since it was rebuilt a couple of years ago. Now he's just trying to service the water pump. But when he went to drop the lower unit, The shaft was stuck in the head. Not knowing that the shaft is supposed to come out of the powerhead, he pried on the lower unit, breaking the plastic waterpump housing and then the lower unit dropped down without the shaft, leaving the shaft still stuck in the powerhead. That's what made me think of the motor I had and how the shaft would just slip out of the lower unit. And it ran great for 15 years. But I do know my 70 HP shaft doesn't just slide out. So I'm a little lost on this one, too. Maybe Joe or one the the others will chime in

 

[pursuit2460]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

You are correct rickb1boat. So what gives. The lower unit came straight out the shaft stayed in the motor and before all this I been using the boat. Where all 93 225 Johnsons designed the same. My friend has one same year and hp and his motor has some differences.

 

[reeldutch]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

ajc<br /><br />if you have the clymers manual look at page 616<br />this will clarify how the upper shaft is conected to the lower shaft.

 

[pursuit2460]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

Well I just spoke to 2 mech. they said that there is a retaning clip that holds the shaft to the bottom shaft. They also told me that it either came out or the previous mech. didnt put it back in. Either way they said that its no big deal because if the retaning clip came off it would just stay inside the other lower shaft and that the motor and lower unit will run fine since it is splined and not held in place by the clip. Like I said before Ive been running the motor for the past two years with out any problems. Im certain the mechs. that rebuilt my lower unit didnt put it back in, why I dont know. Good mechs. are hard to come by. Thanks for all your help guys. Im just glad that I didnt mess up the lower unit. A rebuilt is like 700-800 bucks.

 

[reeldutch]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

well if they say its fine then dont worry about it.<br />i cannot understand why engeneers make stupid parts that the motor doesnt need.<br /><br />probbebly its ok that its loose and might push up or down???<br />may be toss the shims also.<br /><br />good luck

 

[ob]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

The retainer sleeve and roll pin act as an alignment guide.While there is no rotational torque applied to either in operation,they are engineered for a reason.In your situation,it will surely make reassembly and installation of the waterpump job a bit more tedious.Since the pin and retainer were not in place when you dropped the lower unit,it allowed the shaft to be pulled from the lower shaft ,thus putting the pull on the impeller key and transfering that pull to the pump housing.As mentioned above ,if you're going to leave it as it is,make sure to clean and grease the upper splines to prevent sticking and causing the same headache on next waterpump replacement.Good luck.

 

[pursuit2460]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

Guy thanks for the responces and Im glad i got to the bottom of the shaft problem. As far putting it back together with out the retainer clip it will have to do for now I dont have 600-800 bucks to rebuilt it. Like Ive stated before its been like that for the past two years. I make sure next season that i get that repaired. Reeldutch no offence but you will be amazed at what engineers do so that someone like me and other like the ones on this site have to take their motors to a dealer or mech. becaus ethey know that because of some clip, pin, washer the regular person cannt do it.I also own a 2004 Honda Aquatrax ski and their are things on there that only a dealer can work on. For instance the fuel cover on the tank can only be taken off at the dealer unless you spend the money for the tool to do it. Why would they do that, so you have to come to them in the long run. Im not saying everything engineered is useless but needless. so if a drive shaft breakes after a lu rebuild,you know what it is that you have to tare apart a the lower unit just to change a that drive shaft that makes no sense to me. Anyways that for the help and advice. By the way the water pump fit perfect no problems installing it everything lined up and pumping perfect.

 

[reeldutch]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

no ofence taken,<br /><br />sorry that i got a litle sarcastic,<br />i can not recoment leaving parts out that are designed to be in there. because im not an engeneer.<br /><br />what will you tell the mechs if something will break because your shaft moved upwarts a bit?<br />they recommendet not using the roll pin so you will make them responseble???<br /><br />buy the way how dit the face plate of the waterpump look like?<br />and probbebly your shaft moved up a bit and might be the reason the drive shaft splines was stuck in the crank. if the pin was in it could not move up.<br /><br />just a tought.....<br /><br />if it gets stuck after only 2 years ...<br />i would put the retainer and rolpin in the way its designed.<br />just to be shure its ok.<br /><br />no offence and may be i'm paranoid but thats what i would do.<br />drop the lower unit in 2 years and see if its stuck again.<br />if it is, do yourself a favor and put the pin back in.<br /><br />good to hear you got the waterpump done.<br /><br />and no offence taken.

 

[pursuit2460]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

Well when I saw that my shaft got stuck I looked though the forums for people who had had the same problem. the shaft when I got it out was full of brown crud in between the spline. Look like grease and rust mixed togehter. I am also paranoid and picky when it comes to my motors but right now I have no means of dishing out that kind of money to fix it the right way wish i did. And Im sill paranoid about leating a mech.rebuilt it and not install some else wether it be of little or big importance. Two of the Mech. I talked to told me the shaft wont move because it bottoms out on the lower drive shaft and tops out on the motor. Whether is movement up or down I dont know may be there is but Im sure its not much. Do I like it NO but what can you do. Ill diassemble it again towards the end of the year and fix it.

 

[reeldutch]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

may be the experts can explain to me what function the shims have if the lower and upper are not connected and could slide up or down.<br />this can not be good for the lower drive shaft.<br /><br />i just want to get to the bottum of this.<br />im shure dont want to agrevate people.<br /><br />reeldutch

 

[pursuit2460]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

You and me both. Im sure it serves a purpose or may be it doesnt. It would be nice to know for sure 100 percent. Like I said the mech. I talked to werent to concened with it. If not maybe they would have told me oh no you have to rebuilt your lower unit it will blow to pieces if you dont. They were just like oh its ok not much to that retainer since the lower shaft has a top needle bearing right under the water pump and the drive shaft splines right in to that. Anyways I have other problems to deal with with the motor that are more important like timming a alarms working properly.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: SERIOUS WATER PUMP PROBLEM

ok<br /> sounds like when they rebuilt the lower they had to replace the drive shaft, as the one piece shaft is no longer avalible the replacement is a two piece, the roll pin is mostly for assy and the shafts can be changed without dissasembling the unit by pulling the upper out.<br /> I would replace the driveshat seals as the two piece set up is prone to seal failure.also make sure the top of your shaft has the oring groove or odds are high the wrong upper shaft was used and is allowing water intrusion on the splines.wont hurt much if removed and greaesed once a year or so.<br /> its been a year or two since I changed upper shafts so memory is fuzzy but its doable.<br />I cant remember the exact year of the 2 piece shaft on the 90*loopers but I think its 95, so your 93 manual may not help much.<br />but water pump life is critical as the impeller helps staedy the shaft and as it wears the seal cant ride on the shaft and water gets in.