Service Manual Starter Circuit Check?

[FAV453]

Had trouble starting my 1998 225 oceanrunner this weekend. The starter would spin but the pinion would not engage the flywheel. I read some posts on this site and tried out some suggestions today. Batteries are fresh charged (tried a jump box just in case) and pinion is free on the shaft. So it must be the starter, solenoid or other electrical problems. <br />I got out the service manual and followed the Starter Circuit Check Cart found there. Below is a link to it for reference:<br /><br /> https://home.comcast.net/~fav453/nomospictures/starter.jpg <br /><br /> My question is I got to step 3 which says that you should check ground to the ignition input on the solenoid and if you see battery voltage the solenoid is bad which I did see. To me this doesn't make sense isn't there suposed to be 12 volts there coming from the ignition and isn't that the signal that tells the solenoid to allow the starter to spin up?

 

[JB]

Re: Service Manual Starter Circuit Check?

What are you reading on the starter post when engaged, Fav?<br /><br />Go to the FAQ section and check out the steps for isolating starter problems.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[clanton]

Re: Service Manual Starter Circuit Check?

Which manual do you have? Step 3 sounds incorrect to me. Go direct to starter with jump box.

 

[FAV453]

Re: Service Manual Starter Circuit Check?

Thanks for the replies. Now that I think about it, step 3 is making sense to me now. In Step 2 I didn't get any voltage, which was to check out from the solenoid signal (-) to ground. But I did get 12 volts in from 3 (solenoid signal (+)) to ground. Thus the signal isn't passing through the solenoid. Shouldn't I see 12 volts passing through the signal circuit? By the way I will try the FAQ, but I figured breaking out the manual wouldn't hurt.

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Service Manual Starter Circuit Check?

As clanton said, Try jumping the starter out directly from the battery. Also, Make sure all the connections from the battery to the selonoid and from the selonoid to the starter are clean and secure, including the grounds. A set of good jumper cables will work fine to jump out the starter. Ground from battery to starter case... Positive to large starter terminal.. Let us know what happens...

 

[FAV453]

Re: Service Manual Starter Circuit Check?

I take it if jumping the starter works then that points to the solenoid for sure. What is the typical life of a solenoid and what could cause it to fail?

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Service Manual Starter Circuit Check?

That would point to a bad selonoid or corroded or loose connections somewhere, and including the battery and grounds as I mentioned before. They just fail. No particular reason.There are contacts in side the selonoid that may have corrossion on them or the wires inside may be fried. Hard to tell, but they do last a long time, normally.

 

[Xcusme]

Re: Service Manual Starter Circuit Check?

Fav453,<br />Ok, I see where they are going here and why you have a question about step 3.<br /><br />They are basing their statement (in step 3) on your findings of STEP 2.<br /><br />Step 2 says:<br />a: If meter reads battery voltage(on term 2), lead is open between terms 1 & 2. This is true, because if the wire is open (or broken-same thing), #2 terminal WON'T be a ground potential(which it should be), it will read 12VDC. BTW, this also shows that the solenoid coil windings are not open too, voltage goes into the solenoid on term 3 and exits on terminal 2. <br /><br />b: If you get no reading, this means that term #2 is at ground potential(which it should be)and proves that the wire between 2 and 1 is OK.<br /><br />Now , on to step 3:<br /><br />They want you to meter term 3. If you see voltage, when you turn the key, and the solenoid don't click OR spin the starter--then the solenoid is bad. They are basing this assumption on the fact that you have already checked the ground side of the solenoid in step #2, and proved it to be good. They don't tell you one other thing too. Even tho you may have read voltage at terminal 2 (step 2b), this doesn't mean the solenoid is absolutely good. The coil of the solenoid could be internally shorted. This will still show voltage at terminal 2, but the solenoid won't work.<br /><br />It's kinnda reverse thinking , but they are taking the steps logically, starting at the ground connection of the solenoid and working backwards to the ignition switch. Each step is based on the previous steps to find the fault(s).<br /><br />I hope I didn't confuse you....

 

[angus63]

Re: Service Manual Starter Circuit Check?

Did you see the bendix gear engage or not engage the flywheel? My 95 175hp evin has a bendix gear assembly that is clutched and if it fails, it sounds like the gear is not engaged when it actually is but just spinnin'.<br />Just a thought

 

[FAV453]

Re: Service Manual Starter Circuit Check?

Thanks for the insight guys. I will jump the starter as soon as it stops raining tonight or tomorrow. How much are solenoids anyway? <br /><br />Xcusme <br /><br />My starter spins and the solenoid clicks when the key is turned. But taking the manual at its word (based on the fact I did each step of the test)it says that if I see 12 volts on terminal 3 the solenoid is bad. Is that right or wrong? Or is it only if the starter doesn't turn at all that step 3 comes into play? <br /><br />angus63 <br /><br />The bendix gear just spins but doesn't jump up to engage the flywheel and it can be pushed up pretty easily by hand.

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Service Manual Starter Circuit Check?

Just for grins, when you do jump it out, do it with a battery other than the boats(Car, Ect.), if it doesn't work with the boats battery. Your battery may seems OK, but may be bad under a load. Have someone crank it and measure the volts at the battery and let us know what you get. It should not fall below 9.5V or so when cranking with a known good fully charged battery. I still have strong feelings about the connections being the culprit, but won't know until you test it to see if in fact the starter will engage...<br /><br />You may want to read this previous post while waiting:<br /><br /> web page

 

[FAV453]

Re: Service Manual Starter Circuit Check?

I will do. In March I had both batteries (starting type twin OB) load checked. I also started the other OB with both batteries seperately to check the batteries perfomance. Actually I did notice this winter that the connection at the battery terminals didn't look great so I cleaned the terminals and the lugs with battery cleaner and a wire brush. They don't look that bad yet. As to the engine connections I took off a few to test (starter, solnoind signal) and they look great. The engine electrical connections were neoprene dipped. I plan on replacing the battery cable lugs while I am working on this problem this week. I guess I could test the cables with an OHM meter to see if a resistance from corrosion has built up? Thanks again.

 

[clanton]

Re: Service Manual Starter Circuit Check?

If the starter is attemping to turn when the solenoid clicks, that should mean the small wires, yellow/red stripe and black to ground are doing there job. Recheck batteries and cable.

 

[FAV453]

Re: Service Manual Starter Circuit Check?

I haven't gotten the chance to try any other remedies, but will tonight. I read another thread where someone suggested the electrical problem could be caused by wing nuts and or multiple connections at the battery (both which I have). I know why wing nuts might be frowned opun (loosening), but it seems I have no other options but to have multiple connections at the battery. Battery charger, connection to switch, bilge pump. By the way what is the thread of a battery terminal?

 

[angus63]

Re: Service Manual Starter Circuit Check?

Thread depends on battery. Some have 10-32, some have 1/4-20, and some have 5/16-18. Also, some have different size pos and neg.

 

[FAV453]

Re: Service Manual Starter Circuit Check?

Well gents I got it started last night. Thanks due to all for your suggestions. I cleaned the battery post and connectors (emory cloth and toothbrush). I also cleaned some of the main power connections on the motor. The positive line to the battery had some of the strands broken or cut behind the terminal but not corroded. I cut the bad end off and replaced the terminal with a "marine" screw down type. After this I coated all the cleaned connections with the red battery post protective spray. It didn't start right up, but after like 3 seconds of the starter spinning it jumped up and fired up the engine. Although the battery was load tested it could be a bit weak. I want to replace both battteries with dual purpose batteries just to be sure, since I do start the motors and run my systems from them. Thanks again I love this forum