Shaft Lock on 1969 V4 115HP Electro Johnson

[VELOCIS]

Hi all,<br />I have had this engine for about a year now and have had some good use out of it. Took it out of the water to re-spray the boat and give it an updated look from its 1975 build date.<br />In doing so however I neglected to make sure the drive shaft and LU for that matter had adequate oil in them for the 6 month period that it took me to rebuild and respray. <br /><br />So therefore my main shaft from the Powerhead to the gearbox is jammed. The shaft that connects to the propeller still moves okay (Clicks around when the LU is in Forward but still no movement in the top shaft.)<br /><br />I have removed the impellor kit, The 2 shaft seals that stop water/oil mixing but the next bearing I encounter I cannot seem to get out.<br /><br />Have had it soaking in WD-40 overnight but even with a big rench still cannot manage to turn the shaft.<br /><br />Anyone got any ideas of ways to get it freed up again.<br /><br />WHY DO I BELIEVE IT WILL FREE UP YOU ASK ?<br />Well it is partly just blind faith but I am hoping as with the motor which was also locked up, after a bit of soaking and TLC I got it to fire up and its running as good as new. It was quite funny when I first got it going again, when I tried to swicth it off it kept running (maybe cos no load of the gearbox?) so I leant down to take off the battery lead, next thing I know a few flames come shootin out the exhaust leg right next to me just like a drag car. Freaky its like playing with a Harley Davidson at idle.<br />I am running the engine without a lower unit at the moment but I have a pressurised water system feeding the motor so it does not heat up or anything.<br /><br />Based over in Australia Johnson parts are not that cheap sometimes so fixin lower units is sometimes a good option.<br /><br />Has anyone ever managed to transform a Johnson Electric Shift into a manual shift as I have the control box for the manual and would love to get away from Elctro shift.<br /><br />Whoever invented Electro-Shift had just been watching too much Star Trek !

 

[jimmbo]

Re: Shaft Lock on 1969 V4 115HP Electro Johnson

Which is it, a 1969(in title) or a 1975(in first paragraph)? If your motor is a 1975 model you don't hsve to worry about the Hydro-electric shift. It was discontiued after the 1972 model year and replaced in 1973 with a hydro-mechanical design. With either design, I would reccommend taking the unit apart to find the reason for the jammed shaft. The driveshaft is connected to the pinion, which drives the reverse gear and forward gear, which drives the oil pump, any of which might be the culprit. As for questioning the design of the hydro-electric shift. It ensured that the gears were shifted quickly which minimized wear and tear on the clutch dog and the gears, something that don't happen often with manual shift as owners ease into forward.

 

[lark2004]

Re: Shaft Lock on 1969 V4 115HP Electro Johnson

I'm guessing that the engine is 1968, and the boat is 1975, possibly? As for the lower unit, you state "The shaft that connects to the propeller still moves okay (Clicks around when the LU is in Forward but still no movement in the top shaft.)"<br /><br />do you mean that with the unit in forward you can turn the prop shaft and the drive shaft input doesn't turn? If so you will need to inspect everything inside your lower unit. (go ahead and open her up, it's not that hard! )<br /><br />Also, what is the model number of the engine? that usually helps with identifing your engine and finding info about it.

 

[VELOCIS]

Re: Shaft Lock on 1969 V4 115HP Electro Johnson

Okay sorry for the confusion I'll try to clarify.<br /><br />The boat is a 1975 build and I took the boat out of the water to update its look.<br /><br />The engine is a 1969 electro shift, I know this as I have taken the LU off the leg a couple of times to replace the wires (common problem of wires scorched on turning shaft).<br /><br />When removed the LU is in forward as I do not have power going to either lead.<br /><br />The propeller shaft will turn in a forward drive rotation but it clicks over. (Would be like a clutch if the propeller was still spinning)<br /><br />The problem is the vertical shaft from the engine is locked. I have removed the water impellor kit, 2 seals which seperate water and oil but the next big bearing is stuck fast...<br /><br />I tested the solenoids today with a power source but I do not hear it click over. I am thinking more and more I should just buy a replacment LU for AU$700 which comes with 3 months warranty and just keep the other for spares...<br /><br />Thanks for the help once again guys...

 

[jimmbo]

Re: Shaft Lock on 1969 V4 115HP Electro Johnson

The solenoids control the postion of s plunger valve which controls the flow of oil. In forward(default) the oil is dumped, and the clutch dog is held in forward by a spring. In neutral it is partially redirected to move the clutch dog to a neutral postion. For reverse more oil used to push the clutch dog over to the reverse gear. Since you can get a replacement case if something goes wrong, take it apart and see what's holding it up.

 

[VELOCIS]

Re: Shaft Lock on 1969 V4 115HP Electro Johnson

Jimmbo you seem to know a little about these engines,... do you own one ?<br /><br />Do I need to remove the horizontal propellor shaft before I am able to remove the vertical shaft completly ?

 

[mrc]

Re: Shaft Lock on 1969 V4 115HP Electro Johnson

Well either way you go, it's time to disassemble the lower unit (either to fix, or to seperate the good parts from the bad). <br /><br />On the prop side, there is a bearing carrier held in place (way back in) with 4 allen head bolts. Remove the 4 bolts and pull the bearing carrier out (hard to do, manual calls for special tool, I use harmonic ballancer puller which is roped to the bearing carrier).<br /><br />Next down the prop shaft you remove a fairly large split ring. Then you can remove cap plate which holds the bearing carrier in place. Perhaps another split ring (not sure, working from memory here) then a gear. At this point you have access to drive shaft which has a nut holding on the end holding on the drive shaft gear.<br /><br />Go topside now and if you haven't already, remove the four bolts holding on the top bearing carrier. With punch see if you can get the bearing carrier to spin a bit (seam is about 1/4" down from top of carrier). Once loosened, work it up the drive shaft and off. (This is the piece you removed two seals from)<br /><br />The next step would be removing the drive shaft, a tricky proposition anyway, but with the drive shaft unable to spin, I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to go about it.<br /><br />Normally, I would attach a wrench to the drive shaft gear nut, put vice grips on the drive shaft (about 1/2 way down the shaft) and spin the shaft until the nut came off. <br /><br />Perhaps if you have an appropriately sized ratcheting box end wrench you can use a piece of pipe as an extender and remove the bolt?<br /><br />This will free up the drive shaft to be pulled <br />up and out of the lower unit (provided it wasn't frozen). At which point the drive shaft gear will fall off, and you have access to the other gear. <br /><br />Remove the gears and you should be able to remove the prop shaft.<br /><br />At this point you have the oil pump way in the back of LU housing, and another drive shaft bearing pressed into the LU housing.<br /><br />If the bearing pressed into the LU housing has gone bad..... unlucky you. If you want to save the LU, time to take it an OMC dealership to have them remove it and press in a replacement.<br /><br />The oil pump is held in place by .... you guessed it, a split ring WAYYYYY in the back. You need a special extender tool to get at it.<br /><br />All this is based on several year old memories of parting out an bad LU, I strongly suggest you obtain some sort of manual for the motor.<br /><br />My guess is either the lower or upper drive shaft bearings has bonded to the drive shaft.

 

[mrc]

Re: Shaft Lock on 1969 V4 115HP Electro Johnson

Oh, and I can see the real mechanics cringing at the use of vice grips from here . Manual of course calls for special tool which fits over the top of the shaft and matches the form of the engine crankshaft. <br /><br />If you use vice grips and manage to mar the surface of the drive shaft (it's pretty tough stuff probably won't happen). Carefully sand down any protrubance which would damage the seal during installation.

 

[VELOCIS]

Re: Shaft Lock on 1969 V4 115HP Electro Johnson

MRC3 you is on da money there I think.<br /><br />Its down at the workshop but I think that the primary bearing in the LU as you put it has bonded to the shaft... Anyway of seperating with chemicals... <br /><br />Or as I said bite the bullet get the recod one and keep the other for spares.. <br /><br />Cheers for the extended explanation of disassemblement.

 

[lark2004]

Re: Shaft Lock on 1969 V4 115HP Electro Johnson

try CRC 5-56 instead of WD-40, or Diesel or dextron III. WD-40 doesn't really penatrate all that well. Maybe a bit of heat after a few days soaking will free the shaft. Worked for my stuck head bolt.

 

[jimmbo]

Re: Shaft Lock on 1969 V4 115HP Electro Johnson

While I have owned many motors, and prior to that was around my dads boats, I have never owned a hydro-electric, nor have I tore one apart, but I've seen many manuals which explained and illustrated their design and operation very well.

 

[VELOCIS]

Re: Shaft Lock on 1969 V4 115HP Electro Johnson

Thanks for the tips... Will post the result...

 

[VELOCIS]

Re: Shaft Lock on 1969 V4 115HP Electro Johnson

Just posting the finale.<br /><br />In regards to my problems with my Johnson 1969 V4 115HP's Lower Unit, neither myself or my fabrication specalist could get the gearbox apart... just too corroded !<br /><br />Not to worry on a trip back from the Ski fields I dropped into a country marine place. To my amazment they had two identical motors from the same year and they only wanted $700 for the both of them. Thats the same price I would have had to buy just the lower unit from a place in Sydney. Now I have two spare motors for parts.<br /><br />So my woes are over for the moment. I am now just swapping the powerheads between the new and old leg assembly as the new one has all working hydraulics and is generally in better condition.<br /><br />Thanks all for your help on this old workhorse motor.