Shift Lever

[Bimmerknut]

Okay, I have a question. I have a 35hp Force motor that was built in 1988, The motor was overheating so I set out to replace the water pump. The water pump was pretty straight-forward and easy to do. I went to check the lubricant and unfortunately it was very milky. So when I went to get the impeller, I bought a seal kit for the lower end. I got the seals changed out and all looks pretty good. My problem is this. The bottom of my shifter rod isn't attached to anything. I can pull it straight out. I noticed that it is threaded on the end but I cannot get it to thread into anything deep inside the lower unit. What does it thread into? Am I going to have to tear the whole motor down to see? I'm very mechanically inclined with cars. This is the first time I've taken an outboard apart.

Thanks folks! I do really appreciate your help!

 

[henryrock]

Re: Shift Lever

hi easy fix that look in housing of the box u c three nut loosen all out to piece gear box come apart then u find part rod hole goes in then u set put the gearbox together again

 

[Bimmerknut]

Re: Shift Lever

hi easy fix that look in housing of the box u c three nut loosen all out to piece gear box come apart then u find part rod hole goes in then u set put the gearbox together again

I never had the entire gear box out. I only had the drive shaft out so that I could replace the impeller and then I removed the housing for the propshaft so that I could replace the seal behind the bearing seal. How do I get the casing separated? I noticed one nut on top of the lower section that is right next to the shift rod. Then there is one more nut that I also didn't remove BEHIND the housing for the propshaft. I only see those TWO nuts. If there is a third nut, where is it? Also, I read somewhere NOT TO REMOVE the screw that is located between the vent screw and the fill screw on the outer case. I know you're from Australia but your english is very hard to understand especially without punctuation. That's for the help though!

Reply when you can. I need to get this back together and running again!

 

[catfishcarl99]

Re: Shift Lever

. seperate the top from lower first by taking the nuts off the #31 and #39 studs. i think you can connect without removing gears. remove the nut off long stud #31 in front of impellor housing. look down inside the hole behind the impellor housing. the nut to short stud #39 is down there. remove. open the lower from the upper. you should see the # 34 yoke then. re connect. slide everything back into upper. re bolt. drain gear lube first.

 

[Bimmerknut]

Re: Shift Lever

. seperate the top from lower first by taking the nuts off the #31 and #39 studs. i think you can connect without removing gears. remove the nut off long stud #31 in front of impellor housing. look down inside the hole behind the impellor housing. the nut to short stud #39 is down there. remove. open the lower from the upper. you should see the # 34 yoke then. re connect. slide everything back into upper. re bolt. drain gear lube first.

Thanks Carl, It's been completely drained before I pulled the propshaft housing #14. Don't you mean that the nut to the short stud is behind the propshaft housing? The impellor is up on top if I'm not mistaken. I hope that the yoke isn't stripped. Anyway, I'll give it a look-see after church today. Thank you friend! I'll post back with update later on.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Shift Lever

If you look closely, part #34 has a square/rectangular threaded piece in it. the shift rod #36was unscrewed from this piece. It may just be possible to screw it back in without disassembling the lower unit.

You need to need to be good though--and patient.

Push the rod down and try to screw it back into the hole. If the rectangular piece has not moved, it may go right in. If so, screw it all the way down and back out just enough to mate with the upper rod.

If the piece has "rolled" out of position, you can try to put it back by manipulating the shift rod on it. Not an easy task and you may elect to disassemble the lower unit instaed.

 

[Bimmerknut]

Re: Shift Lever

Well I got it all back together. It started up and ran fine although I didn't run it long enough to really let it get hot because I noticed the prop was traveling counterclockwise. I don't think that is correct. Isn't it supposed to run clockwise? If it is not operating the right direction, how did I mess the direction of travel up?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Shift Lever

It is not possible to reassemble the gears and shift linkage to make the prop turn in the wrong direction. Down is forward and forward is clockwise. If the shift linkage is too short, the engine will have only neutral and reverse gear or possibly only reverse gear. Props will turn when in neutral and out of the water due to oil thickness and drag on the propshaft. So, if prop rotation is not due to oil drag on the propshaft but the engine is really in gear, then you need to adjust the shift linkage.

 

[catfishcarl99]

Re: Shift Lever

if the prop is going in reverse and shifting to forward doesnt switch it to normal rotation im guessing the cluch dog is out of whack of the yoke and yoke isnt catching it to move it forward. if this is tha case you will have to seperate #26 from #42. upper from lower. and move the clutch dog which is part #24 and slides back and forth on the toothed prop shaft back into position. the #34 yoke should slide it back and forth when the shift shaft is moved up and down.

again theres two rods that thread into the lower housing.the rods ive circled in red. then i put x's on the locations of the nuts that hold them on. one is right in front of the housing that covers impellor. one is deep inside the hole behind the housing. where x's are. been a while since i replaced ny dog so im doing the best i can from memory. you might need a flashlight to see the nut down in there.

 

[Bimmerknut]

Re: Shift Lever

Just to make sure I was giving all the accurate information, I ran a second test. The prop when the engine starts does not free-spin. It is spinning rapidly in counter-clockwise rotation. This is with the selector in neutral. I then shifted to forward and it made no difference. Once it hit the throttle position it just ran faster. Putting the motor in reverse made no difference at all, so there seems to be a problem with the shift linkage somewhere. Remember earlier in this thread I had to separate the bottom end, locate the dog (#34) to which I then screwed the rod into that and then reassembled everything else. I did also take out gear #35 and inspected it for pitting and it looked fine as did the race that goes on top of it. I also mistakenly removed the long pin that screws in the case midway between the vent and fill screw but I was also able to get it back in with no issues so I assumed I hadn't messed anything up there. I want to repeat though that when the prop turns with the muffs supplying water, it is NOT a free-spin as it usually is, it is spinning rapidly with slight but significant velocity to it. Thank you guys for helping me with this. I hope I can find where things went wrong. One last note. When I did screw the rod into the dog, I expected to be able to shift merely by pulling or pushing on the rod while the bottom end are separated from the mid-section but it wouldn't budge in either direction up or down. I hope I'm giving enough information to help discern what is and isn't happening.

 

[Bimmerknut]

Re: Shift Lever

Ok, as of this morning, I have the entire gearbox disassembled. I can see now how that clutch should most like be in a position as far back and close to the bevel gear #25 as possible. I will reassemble in that manner but I hit another snag. The tiny yoke that the small end of the propshaft rests in before putting the shift rod in place is badly gouged. I think before I put this all back together, I'm going to buy another one. They're about $30 but my local boat shop is out of them and would have to order one and as usual it takes about a week to get it. While I'm waiting, I think I'll take some pictures as usually always do when posting on service and repair forums such as this one.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Shift Lever

You need to understand a couple of things. It is not possible to incorrectly assemble the gears and prop shaft so that the prop turns the wrong direction. Here's why: The pinion gear, forward gear, and reverse gear are always in mesh and turning when the engine is turning. The dog clutch between the gears slides on the splined shaft to engage either gear. Since both gears turn in opposite directions, depending upon which gear the dog clutch engages, it will turn the prop shaft in that direction. (when correctly assembled) The large steel yoke and the small brass yoke (saddle) function to move the center shaft forward or rearward and thus move the dog clutch into mesh with either gear. The dog clutch is positioned between the gears in neutral and since there is only about 1/2 inch movement and the dogs are about 1/4 inch, when assembled there is very little clearance between the gears and dog clutch.

As I said before: Forward gear is selected by moving the shift rod down. THUS: If the shift linkage is adjusted too short, neutral and reverse will only be available and in extreme cases, only reverse will be engaged. Similarly, if the linkage is too long, the engine will not go into reverse. IF the linkage is too short or too long, the dog clutch will be forced hard against the mating gear, undue force will be put on the saddle and one side will wear where the center shaft rides against it.

SO: After reassembling the lower unit again, and attaching to the engine, you must pay careful attention to the adjustment of the shift linkage. Suffice to say that this has been discussed many times and if you search, you will find instructions on how to use the long hex coupler to adjust.

Depending upon how tightly the shift rod seal has been driven in, it may or may not be easy to move the rod by hand. Frequently, if snug, it will be necessary to put a small nail through the hole in the rod in order to get enough grip to move it by hand.

Here is a case where too loose will leak, too tight makes it difficult to shift, and just right is --well, just right.

 

[Bimmerknut]

Re: Shift Lever

I kinda see what you are saying about the linkage. I'm going to have to search the forum more thorough now that I know what I'm looking for. It's still a GOOD thing I dismantled the lower end again as you can see I found the yoke in bad shape and in my fussin' with the shift rod, I managed to move the yoke out of position. Now I don't know if I did something or the yoke had been abused previously but those gashes appear to be fresh to me. As I mentioned earlier, shifting in reverse (down on the selector) was a lot harder that it should have been. The next two pics I took show the clutch sitting to the far left which it should not have been. It should have been interlocked with the three notches in the angle gear itself as shown in the 2nd pic. The third pic is how I had it when I installed it yesterday and that obviously is incorrect now that I've seen the three indents in the gear casing. Thanks Frank for keeping up on this with me!

One last thing though Frank. Once I get things back together but BEFORE I reinsert the gear housing back into the motor housing for final bolt up and connecting of the shift linkage, shouldn't I be able to physically pull on the rod by hand and get it to manipulate the gear properly? That way I would KNOW that I have everything fully functional BEFORE I install the gear housing back up into the motor. Or does that take more force and torque than is capable by hand?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Shift Lever

0h yes, that saddle yoke shows definite signs of excess force applied to it. It is now useless. That is why you only could get reverse. The shift rods were adjusted too short OR-- as explained below-- The lower shift rod was stuck in the seal, again too short

When assembling the lower unit, the position of the dog clutch is immaterial since the shift yoke(part 34) and brass saddle move it. In fact, it is easier to assemble the shift yokes to the shift shaft if the dog clutch is in mesh with the forward gear (the one with the bearing attached). That way, the center shaft is longer and gives you more to work with. BTW: There IS a steel saddle available. Don't know a part number though.

The shift rod should move smoothly with some drag. If after passing a nail through the hole in it for additional grip you still can not move it, the seal in the upper gearcase housing is too tight. remove and replace it. Use an appropriatly sized socket and long piece of pipe to fit over the shaft and tap the seal in (metal side up) until the shaft has drag, indicating it is sealed, but still moves smoothly. You should NOT be able to move it very easily, but you should be able to pull it up and push it down without undue fuss.

The gear with the bearing is the forward gear. the steel yoke sits revered from what you would think so that when you push down on the shift rod the yoke moves toward the point of the gearcase, pulling the center shaft out and moving the dog clutch into mesh with the forward gear.

 

[Bimmerknut]

Re: Shift Lever

Ok Frank! I got the new yoke in the mail today along with a new inlet screen. I want to make sure I perfectly understand how this assembly should look when it goes back together properly.

This is looking down the business end of the gear case. I have the selector rod installed and I'm lifting on the rod so that the fork rises up and faces the camera. Does the shift-rod itself need adjusting with respect to how many turns it gets threaded into the fork before I put the yoke in?

Now we have the yoke in place and I need to ask you, is this the position the yoke is supposed to be in when the prop-shaft and gears are installed?

This is the exact position of the clutch when it is installed correct? And the end of the shaft is notched to accept the end of the yoke as it sits in the position of the previous pic right?

Sorry to be such a pain but there isn't a lot of posted videos or pictures of this particular mechanism that shows the precise placement of the selector rod fork and the yoke.

Thanks!!

 

[Bimmerknut]

Re: Shift Lever

Well I couldn't put it off another day so I went ahead and put it back together the most logical manner. I installed the selector rod and then slid in the bearing. Next with some grease I put the yoke on the end of the prop-shaft and carefully slid it in until the fork on the selector rod caught the tabs on the yoke and we were good to go. Everything seemed to work well. The single I have now is that whenever I put on the PROPELLER SHAFT BEARING CAGE #14, I no longer feel the ability to shift. The rod does move an inch or two upward but I can tell nothing is happening to the prop-shaft? I take the propeller shaft bearing off and things are back to normal again. Is this that issue with the clutch being in ithe wrong damn place again?

 

[Bimmerknut]

Re: Shift Lever

Well it's been over a week since any responses. Maybe I met my quota of questions. The engine sits on the workbench as you see it now and nothing moves by hand. I've gone through all the FAQ's and thread about smaller Force motors and there really isn't much about this particular issue. At this point I'm just going to have to shelve the project until I can afford to have a mechanic rework it which won't be until later August after I get my student loan refund for Fall semester. Being disabled doesn't afford you the luxury to do a lot of things which is why I try to do all that I can repair-wise to keep my cars and boat running.

 

[Bimmerknut]

Re: Shift Lever

Well it LOOKS like I have the shifting problem worked out. I tried shifting it once I got the LU hooked up to the motor. Without starting, I went through the RNF and they seem to work as they should. But now I have a problem I've not encountered yet and that is that the drive shaft seems to be bound somewhere because the motor won't complete a revolution while attempting to start it. I thought maybe my bettery was weak so I charged it up and that didn't seem to help so I'm back to looking for something mechanical. With the LU connected still I pulled the prop, prop coupler and the bearing to the coupler. I then slid the bearing on just finger tight and then intalled the coupler with soft taps with a rubber mallet just enough to get the two screws to start and then let the screw pull the coupler up tight so I don't think there is any way the bearing would be bind as I thought I might have read somewhere else.

Any ideas!.....Anyone?

UPDATE: at 7pm today I went and made sure the prop spin in all three positions. It does. So I kicked the key just to see if the motor would spin. It did. So I hooked up the muff and added enough lube to fill the case. (Remember I last removed the prop-shaft without removing the LU from the motor so while I lost about a cup or two of lube, I had the foresight to catch it in a clean cup for reuse). I went to turn the motor over and it wouldn't turn over. It would turn a hair and then stop. So I'm recharging the battery and making sure that's not the issue but this is about to drive me crazy chasing this thing down.

 

[wickware]

Re: Shift Lever

Can and should you turn the engine by hand if you feel or know there are some possible mechanical issues? Hey! This Is ?Almost? Forcing Me To Part-Out My Boat And Motor (for peace of mind) Sparing The Solid Trailer.

I know it?s hard but kick back and have a good laugh about something. Maybe the look on my Son-In-Law?s face when I told him my Boat has to go. He Says What! The thought of him not fishing with me as I did with my Father-In-Law almost 15 years has been a nightmare. My wife keeps saying he c/n wait for me to ask. Well, my 1st Grand is almost 3 and I?ll plan to take him and her out in the same boat I took my only child and daughter out in to catch some East, Tx Bream. Not Soon Though. LOL & Take Care!

 

[emoney]

Re: Shift Lever

The frustration can almost get the best of you BUT, it's just like Golf when you have 17 poopy holes but on #18, you par (or birdie). Once you get back to the water, all will be forgotten. (free thread bump, btw)