Shifting Problems on Force Outboard

[spdimgemr2]

I was wondering if someone could give me some advice? I have an 86 Bayliner with an 85hp Force outboard motor. I've been having problems shifting it into foward gear. I've read some of the posts in the past that it could be just the cables, and the local repair shop also told me to adjust the cables. <br /><br />Well, over the weekend I tried to adjust the cables using the Clymer repair manual I just bought and I think the problem might be something else. The manual says to "manually move the power head gear shift lever to forward gear while spinning the propeller..." <br /><br />Well, first of all, the shift lever is difficult to move, should it be that way?<br /><br />Second, no matter what I do, I can not get it into forward gear, reverse is no problem.<br /><br />So then, I re-connected the cables to try and shift it to forward gear and then removed the cables, the shift lever will just pop back into neutral. It seems like it gets stuck and won't go into forward.<br /><br />Is my problem more serious than just adjusting the cables? Any help would be greatly appreciated.<br /><br />Thanks<br />James

 

[12Footer]

Re: Shifting Problems on Force Outboard

Welcome to iboats.<br />It does sound like gear damage, but let's find out for sure,James.<br />Get a bucket or pan that will fit under the skeg. Remove the two screws that are labled "VENT" and "FILL" on the starboard side of the lower unit. Note the color of the lube.Is is translucent green,black or peanut butter milkshake colored?<br /><br />Run your finger thru the drained goo, and feel for chunks of metal. Anything a grain of sugar-sized or larger, and you have gear damage. If not, it may be the pin at the base of the shift shaft. There is a cotter pin there, and sometimes, they shear.<br />Let us know what you find.

 

[spdimgemr2]

Re: Shifting Problems on Force Outboard

OK... I finally got around to draining the gear oil and checking to see what color it is. The gear oil is a dark green color (hopefully that's the normal color). I also sifted through the oil and could not find any metal shavings. Hopefully this is a good thing.<br /><br />Anyhow, since I did not find any metal shavings... what do you think my problem could be?<br /><br />Thanks in advance for any help.<br /><br />James

 

[12Footer]

Re: Shifting Problems on Force Outboard

Good news. Lube is normal color, and no metal shavings.<br />Be sure to use new gaskets on the vent/fill screws when you refill it.<br />Bad news, it may be the shift coupler is broken or worn, or the shift pin in the end of the prop shaft is worn or bent. Unfortunately, the only way to know for sure, is to tear it down and check.<br />The shift coupler is the simplest to get at,and will be at the base of the lower shift rod. The shift pin will require a full teardown, tho.<br />And this will require some special tools and equipment (as outlined in the manual).<br />It might even be cheaper to find a used l/u ,and just swap it out,when all is said and done.<br />So make sure the linkage is 100% to spec one more time. I got my fingers crossed.<br />Let us know what you find.

 

[johnkc]

Re: Shifting Problems on Force Outboard

james, the shift shaft seal has been known to swell around the shift shaft and not let the shaft slide smoothly and completely up & down. i would suggest removing the l.u. and see how stiff the shaft is at the l.u. if it is still stiff remove the shift cover and replace the seal on the shift shaft before going on into the l.u. if the motor has been ran much this way you probably do have some clutch to gear damage. good luck!

 

[spdimgemr2]

Re: Shifting Problems on Force Outboard

This is what I have found so far... I'm not sure if this was a good thing to do, but this is what I did:<br /><br />Looking at the motor leg, I shifted to forward gear and noticed that the position of the shift rod is still in the neutral zone... so I got a small pry bar and pushed down on the shift rod while turning the propeller. The shift rod is able to be pushed down further into the motor leg and the forward gear engages. I give the propeller a few spins manually and seems to be in gear.<br /><br />Now, John was saying that the "shift shaft seal" has been known to swell and cause difficulty for smooth engagement. I flipped through the manual an could not figure out where the shift shaft seal is or how to get to it. Could you give me a little more info on this if possble?<br /><br />I really appreciate the help the both of you have given me. You guys have helped me tremendously. I'm fairly good with working on cars, but have never worked on a boat like this before.<br /><br />Thanks again... James

 

[ODDD1]

Re: Shifting Problems on Force Outboard

James, before you take that gearcase off, unhook the shift rod above the lower unit. then try to shift the gearcase with the unhooked shift rod an see how hard it is....I am not convinced your prob is in the lower...it might be in the mid section.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Shifting Problems on Force Outboard

Nor am I. Especially since you can get it into gear by prying on it.<br />The shift shaft seal should be ok,as when they fail, you get water in the lower unit.<br />And you have none in yours.

 

[johnkc]

Re: Shifting Problems on Force Outboard

james , i am assuming that you have the shift cable disconnected from the engine and when you move the shift lever on the engine , it is stiff / hard to move thru the gears.if this is the case, the shift linkage under the carbs has 2 small plastic bushings. but have never seen these sieze up the shift. then there is the pivot piece that connects to the shaft that goes down to the l.u. , havn't seen these sieze up either.so the next stop would be the shift shaft seal located right on top of the l.u. where the shift shaft enters the lower unit. but before you remove the l.u. you can take off the shift coupler located down by the l.u.,then you can operate the shift lever to see if it is stiff. when these shift shaft seals swell up they grab the shift shaft so tight that they won't let the shaft slide or let water in the l. u. check it out and good luck

 

[spdimgemr2]

Re: Shifting Problems on Force Outboard

I disconnected the shift rod just above the lower unit, and it is still difficult to shift the lower unit into gear. I think that maybe the shift shaft seal as johnkc described is the problem.<br /><br />Is replacing this seal a difficult task? I have never taken an outboard motor apart before but I do have some mechanical knowledge from working on cars. Should I even try to atempt this job or should I just bring it into the local marine shop?

 

[spdimgemr2]

Re: Shifting Problems on Force Outboard

Please help. I didn't receive a reply from my last post, so I thought I would put this thread up front again. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.<br /><br />thanks... James

 

[StevenW]

Re: Shifting Problems on Force Outboard

Replacing the seal isn't too bad, you just have to remove the lower unit and it's right there on top.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Shifting Problems on Force Outboard

The seal isn't going to prevent you from shifting. there is a knuckle inside the lower unit,shaped like a two fingered fist. It's called the shift coupler. This piece moves the gears on the propshaft to engage forward,neutral,or reverse. If you can't get the shift shaft to shift, there may be as problem with too much play in the forks of the shift coupler,or it may be binding. There's no easy way to get to this piece, and a complete teardown is the only way to even check this. But on the bright side, it will give you a chance to check all the rest of the l/u's components. It's a big job, which is why even used l/u's cost so much.

 

[spdimgemr2]

Re: Shifting Problems on Force Outboard

First I'd like to thank everyone who has given me great advice and helped me narrow down my problem.<br /><br />I finally found the time to take off my LU to check the shift shaft seal and indeed that was the culprit. johnkc... you are the man! After removing the seal, the shift shaft was able to shift like a hot knife cutting through butter.<br /><br />Anyhow, since I have the LU off, is there anything I should double check or replace for maintenence reasons? water pump, seals, etc.?<br /><br />Thanks again!<br /><br />James

 

[spdimgemr2]

Re: Shifting Problems on Force Outboard

I didn't recieve a reply from my previous post on what I should do to the LU while it is out... thought I'd bump my message up to the front again.<br /><br />I'm going to head over to the marine shop today to pick up the new seal and probably a new water pump... anything else I should inspect or think about replacing?<br /><br />thanks in advance<br /><br />James

 

[spdimgemr2]

Re: Shifting Problems on Force Outboard

I finished putting in the shift shaft seal and a new water pump in the LU... oiled up the gear case and fired up the motor... the motor shifts perfectly now... thanks for all the help from this board<br /><br />james