Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

[frustratedboater]

Gentlemen,
I had pulled an 85', 351 out of a Mastercraft ski boat last fall to replace the floor and to clean up the motor a bit, due to some rust all over the external engine/trans. It ran real smooth with very responsive throttle before the pull. I gave it a basic break-down while in the garage like: water pump, hoses, pulleys, holley carb, and pulled the cap off the distributor, but left the base of it in. Other than pulling the gas tank to get all of the floor out, that was it. I re-installed water pump, hoses, belts (motor looks real good) and cranked it over. After running the fuel through the line, it finally hit and heard, what I'll try to describe as, ".....rumble, rumble, rumble, pop, rumble, rumble, rumble, pop,..." (that pop sound is coming right under the carb), then repeats... Along with that I am hearing clicking noises as if a bad lifter or an adjustment was needed.

The block was completly drained before winter, I had rebuilt the holley just before install, which had lots of gunk and grime in it. I don't believe it froze or anything. I did replace some of the wires and re-wrapped the electrical harness. I fired it up again and I assumed the timing was off, so I played with the dist., but I still heard the same thing. I know the firing order is correct (checked it about 4 times).

My distributor cap is cracked on the side and ordered a replacement Mallery cap, rotor, points, and condensor. They had the condensor and installed, but same noise. I'm stumped!

Any advice on this one would be welcomed...

 

[Bondo]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

Ayuh,... Unti you finish the Tune-up,... It's hard to say Whats up....
A Cracked dist. cap is probably enough of a Problem in itself...
And,... The Carb don't sound to healthy either...

 

[frustratedboater]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

Yeah, The clicking noise freaks me out. Is there a wiring diagram out there that I can look at for an 85, 351, pleasurecraft motor? Being without vac secondaries, I believe the wire from the distributor goes to the negative side of the coil..? I had it on the positive, but couldn't get it to start. Any recomendations?

 

[boatguya1]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

The clicking noise might be spark jumping somewhere it shouldn't. Look on the coil and plugwires while running preferably in the dark or dimmly lit to make it easier to see.

James

 

[frustratedboater]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

I appreciate all to possibilities your giving here----I will certianly try that once all the replacement parts are on Monday eve to rule that out. It really sounds like a lifter, or hate to say it, but maybe my 5yr. old son put a bolt down the intake when it was sitting on the dolly during the dead of winter without the carb!

I think I'll run a compression test and see where it is. I really hope it's something simple. My wife is a firm believer that each boat I buy is a money pit. I beg to differ!! Love her, but just don't want to feed her any more ammo...

 

[brandhr]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

FB--

I can't give you any advice on your boat, but can maybe offer something to help you with your wife. My wife never missed an opportunity to ride me for spending "more money" on the "money pit". The last time I got it back from the mech, she gave me her typical "how much did you spend on it THIS time?" I finally came up with a good answer-- "honey, to put it in perspective for you, I spent less than 1% of what we lost in the stock market last year". She said, "oh, that's not so bad" and she hasn't nagged me about it again.

I also have a good answer for wives who nag you about buying too many guns--let me know if you need that too.

 

[frustratedboater]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

That's toooooo funny! I got this great deal, and it really was, on the Mastercraft after our years of replacing exhaust manifolds, heat exchangers, and cyl heads, the 'boat' name got cursed. I probably should have never told her about the nioses I was hearing and should said, "Yes, the floors' in, glassed and sealed. It's ready for the carpet!". I'm learning to be a little less forthcoming on the information I give.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

Yeah, The clicking noise freaks me out. Is there a wiring diagram out there that I can look at for an 85, 351, pleasurecraft motor? Being without vac secondaries, I believe the wire from the distributor goes to the negative side of the coil..? I had it on the positive, but couldn't get it to start. Any recomendations?

If your engine is negative ground, then the negative wire from the coil always goes to the distributor (years ago I remember when Ford engines were positive ground, then it would be different). Anyway, check the bolts on the crank pulley (vibration damper) I've heard strange noises from an engine when these are loose. One more thing, Ford had a few different firing orders on their V8's make sure you have the right one. From experience I think the 351 Windsor design was used in boats (the 302 & 351), not the Cleveland design.

 

[frustratedboater]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

I'm not too savy regarding the electronics and carburation, but I have a Mallery distributor that has contact points and the points connect to that bolt coming from the dist (no vacume off the dist). The wire comes from that post and goes to the coil. I got mixed up as to which side the coil cause it got spun around whne I installed it again. I tried the positive and it didn't seem to fire off. I switched it to neg and it started, so I think it's right..?..

I have replaced everything (cap, rotor, points) and will try to run it this evening. Plugs are gapped and cleaned. I did notice when the engine turns off, I have fuel that still drips down into the secondaries for about 5-8 seconds after. I'm almost leaning to re-bench the carb and go through it again, due to the junk I had in it before. Just to be on the safe side.

It's just frustrating.. Probably should take it to a mechanic, but trying to save some $$$.

-FB

 

[MikDee]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

I'm not too savy regarding the electronics and carburation, but I have a Mallery distributor that has contact points and the points connect to that bolt coming from the dist (no vacume off the dist). The wire comes from that post and goes to the coil. I got mixed up as to which side the coil cause it got spun around whne I installed it again. I tried the positive and it didn't seem to fire off. I switched it to neg and it started, so I think it's right..?..

I have replaced everything (cap, rotor, points) and will try to run it this evening. Plugs are gapped and cleaned. I did notice when the engine turns off, I have fuel that still drips down into the secondaries for about 5-8 seconds after. I'm almost leaning to re-bench the carb and go through it again, due to the junk I had in it before. Just to be on the safe side.

It's just frustrating.. Probably should take it to a mechanic, but trying to save some $$$.

-FB

If your battery cables are right, red positive (large battery pole clamp & terminal), and black negative (small battery pole clamp & terminal), then it's set up for negative ground.

If fuel is still dripping from the secondaries, then either your rear float level is too high, rear needle, & seat, is leaking, or the rear bowl vents are clogged, causing it to siphon out.

Your positive (run wire (resistor) & start wire (non-resistor), should go to the Plus + side of the coil, and the wire from the negative - side of the coil should go to the points, you probably have a gray wire on the neg. - side of the coil for the tachometer as well.

If you have any popping sound in the manifold, it could be needing a valve job if the engine has a lot of hours on it? Being a 1985, it might? An engine that has a very worn camshaft, will be responsive, & run fairly smooth, because the valve lift, & duration, are very little. Along with that any exhaust valve that doesn't open enough will cause popping back into the intake manifold. Ask me how I know Been there, Done that! This usually becomes evident after a tune up, as it becomes more pronounced.

 

[rbh]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

morning
with the rumble rumble pop sound, you could have a bad seal between the carb and the manifold. Try spraying some wd40 around the base of the carb and listen to see if the rpms pick up and the motor runs smoother, you may just have to put in a new gasket.
rbh

 

[frustratedboater]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

I really do appreciate your input on this. You all certainly gave me some scenarios that could contribute to the issues I'm having. The needle & seat leak, or the float, makes sense! I tried blowing out all the holes and ports from the Holley, but didn't remove the needle and seats from the bowls. I will do that!!!!

I'm not exactly sure how to adjust the floats... Can I do that from the outside, or is it an internal adjustment? Should they sit level when held in the normal operating position? I believe my carb is the marine 600cfm, or 4160 model..?? Before I rip it apart, I will spray the base gasket to check if any increase is heard. I have an aluminum base/lift that sits on the steel manifold, but missed that lower gasket. I replace it back on, so the leak could very well be it.

Thanks for clearing up the coil wires. I will double check the pattern I have them.

MikDee:
Thanks for commenting on the damper bolts. Mine are missing and the pulley is held on by the crank bolt. Sounds like a rig-job I have but I have seen no sign of slippage, but will be sure to get them installed! I know it's a fine thread, but does anyone know the size of them? I don't want to guess...

I appreciate you all!!!!!!!!!

-FB

 

[MikDee]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

!!

I'm not exactly sure how to adjust the floats... Can I do that from the outside, or is it an internal adjustment? Should they sit level when held in the normal operating position? I believe my carb is the marine 600cfm, or 4160 model..?? Before I rip it apart, I will spray the base gasket to check if any increase is heard. I have an aluminum base/lift that sits on the steel manifold, but missed that lower gasket. I replace it back on, so the leak could very well be it.

Thanks for clearing up the coil wires. I will double check the pattern I have them.

MikDee:
Thanks for commenting on the damper bolts. Mine are missing and the pulley is held on by the crank bolt. Sounds like a rig-job I have but I have seen no sign of slippage, but will be sure to get them installed! I know it's a fine thread, but does anyone know the size of them? I don't want to guess...

I appreciate you all!!!!!!!!!

-FB

By the way, even though it's not a Mercruiser, there might also be neutral safety start switch wires on the coil terminals as well.

You've been given good advice from the previous posters, all needs to be checked first. I'm not sure how to adjust the floats on that Holley either?

As far as the pulley bolts, being that old, I'm betting they're S.A.E. at least, not metric. If you're sure they're fine thread, they're usually 3/8" or 5/16".

 

[frustratedboater]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

I agree. I will work through the list of suggestions and hopefully get to the bottom of it all. You do amazing work! The Thompson & the Penn Yan are awesome!! My speciality is vintage outboards. I haven't figured how to embed a pic, but I restored a 46' Johnson 5hp TD-20 for a guy who's dad gave it to him, and he inturn wants to pass it along to his son. Real cool!! The Seamist Green and the new decals make it look sweet.

Can't thank you enough...

~FB~

 

[frustratedboater]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

We'll, sure enough the needle/seat were dirty and glad I pulled everything out. Blew it clean and carb sprayed the passageway, re-assembled, and started. Still getting the rumble, rumble, rumble, pop, ...... repeats. It will idle about two minutes and then quit.

I lined up the timing mark on the damper and checked where the rotor was pointing to be sure that it was pointing at the #1 cyl lead. Rechecked the firing order: 1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2 (which is printed on the intake-for the ninth time!). I did notice that the choke had a small metal dot (to the right on the right wire) on the face plate was hot. I'll have to recheck the grounds. All I know about is the negitive battery to the Block, the harness/fuse plate to block, and the fuel tank ground to the rear ground wire.

Where can I check to see if the firing patter is correct for my application? My block numbers are: GM 10066036 How can I tell if I have a Cleve. or Mich? Looking at the front of my engine, is the right front #1?

Thanks...

 

[MikDee]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

We'll, sure enough the needle/seat were dirty and glad I pulled everything out. Blew it clean and carb sprayed the passageway, re-assembled, and started. Still getting the rumble, rumble, rumble, pop, ...... repeats. It will idle about two minutes and then quit.

I lined up the timing mark on the damper and checked where the rotor was pointing to be sure that it was pointing at the #1 cyl lead. Rechecked the firing order: 1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2 (which is printed on the intake-for the ninth time!). I did notice that the choke had a small metal dot (to the right on the right wire) on the face plate was hot. I'll have to recheck the grounds. All I know about is the negitive battery to the Block, the harness/fuse plate to block, and the fuel tank ground to the rear ground wire.

Where can I check to see if the firing patter is correct for my application? My block numbers are: GM 10066036 How can I tell if I have a Cleve. or Mich? Looking at the front of my engine, is the right front #1?

Thanks...

Thats Not A Ford!!! It's a Chevy engine with that firing order! BUT, just what Chevy engine is it? a 305, or a 350 cu inch?
Either way, they're All the same firing order,

Cylinders are:

Bottom to top, as your facing the engine:

8--7
6--5
4--3
2--1

^^^
Clockwise Dist. rotation 1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2 as is embossed on the intake manifold.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

Ok, now that I know it's a Chevy engine, I think the noise's you hear is the camshaft being worn out, being round, with very little lobe left! You can check this by taking off the valve covers, one at a time, and running the engine, or cranking it. Check all your rocker arms, each one should move up, & down, abit over 3/8", you may find some hardly moving at all! (a round camshaft). Those valves are hardly opening, making all kinds of odd noises under the manifold. In a worse case scenario, the intake valves open, & close, but the exhaust valve doesn't Thus trapping the ignited combustion mixture, till the intake valve opens again, causing a backfire in the intake manifold. Ask me how I know? Been there, Done that, and a fresh tune up on the engine I had, just made the Backfire much louder I hope this is not the case, but if there's alot of hours on that engine, it's highly likely,,, Anyway, just think now you can put in the cam of your choice though

 

[frustratedboater]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

MikDee,
I appreciate you sharing your experience on this. What you're saying makes sense and I will let you know what the lift on the valves are doing and I can see that senario happening (man, I hope it's not the cam...).

I work at a vo-tech school and ran by this with the auto tech instructor and just by explaining what the engine is doing, he may even think that it could be a bad powervalve in the holley seeing that the "pop" is right under the carb. I don't remember seeing a PV when I removed the bowl. He said that it's a brass, round, cylinder-type shape. I'll try to be more noticing when I take the front bowl off again. I'm not sure how to check a valve to see if it's bad.. I'm a firm beleiver in not throwing parts at a problem in hopes to solve it!

Did you run the block numbers, in my previous post, to see if the motor I have is a 350, or 351? I was told it was a Ford 351, but that info could be wrong. My distributor is in the back and has a clock-wise rotation. While I was searching firing orders, I noticed the cleve & Mich had a distrib. in the front and counter-rotation, with a completely different firing order. Interesting... I await your reply,

Ralph

 

[frustratedboater]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

I thought only EI wires go on the positive side? This has points---does that still matter?
~FB~

 

[boatguya1]

Re: Smooth Idle, but popping/Clicking noise..

Positive from boat keyswitch (poss through ballast resistor or resistor wire) to positive side of coil. Wire from the points to the negative side of the coil on the (non ancient) points systems I'm aware of.

A boat with the firing order wrong or timing way out or jumping around due to cracked dist cap mentioned above might make some "weird" noises. Don't give up yet.

James