snowmobile - which one to buy?

[strokeoluck]

Yeah, I know, it's the wrong time to be thinking about snowmobiling. We're new to boating and we're getting a ton of use out of it and having a blast. But I bought our boat in the dead of winter in Minnesota because I had a hunch we'd find decent deals at that time. Now my wife may be ready to agree to a snowmobile (or two) for our winter "toy".

Just like I knew nothing about boats a year ago, I know very little about snowmobiles today. Hoping you guys and gals can point me in the right direction (even though this is a boating thread!). Here's when/how/where we'd use it most likely:

- Who: Me, my wife, my daughter (11) and my son (9). It's 50/50 as to whether my daughter is going to enjoy it or not. If she does then we may wind up needing two sleds - a two-seater for me and my son, and a two-seater for my wife and daughter. If my daughter winds up hating it then we're probably good with just one sled, as my wife could probably take it or leave it. We can get a smaller sled for my son in a few years.

- When: my guess is we'll just take it out on weekends where we get decent snow, and the occasional weeknight. I can't see us trailering them "up north" much, as we have too many other commitments and my wife just isn't into that sort of thing (hanging out at the hotel, local bars - which seems to be what most non-cottage-owning people tell me they do when they trailer their sleds up north).

- Where: around our home/town. We live in the southwest burbs of Minneapolis where we are surrounded by lakes, farms, golf courses, etc. There's a long snowmobile trail that runs about 200 yards in front of our house that we could easily hop on. During heavy snows you see sleds all over - at the gas stations, restaurants, Home Depot...you name it.

Here are my questions:

- What size sled?

- What brand (and why)?

- Any major issues we should know about w/certain brands?

- What price range do you think we should be in for a two-seater, that's 2-4 years old that needs to be comfortable but not super-fast? (If you have better recommendations, terrific; otherwise this is what I'm thinking we might search for)

- Are there any good snowmobile forums similar to iboats?

- Any good websites to search for sleds? I've been looking at CraigsList but there aren't many listed yet.

Thanks!

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

well if snow mobiles are like jet ski's, i say go yamaha. not seadont.

 

[roscoe]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

There are no bad sleds out there anymore.
It just depends on how many extras you want, and how much you are willing to pay for them.

500-600cc is plenty.
Reverse is really nice but you will probably only use it 3 times a year, UNLESS you need it to get the sled out of the shed or garage every time you use it.

Don't be afraid to look at an 8 or 10 year old machine.
Its all in how it was maintained and how many miles.

Every year I run across a few real creampuffs, 8 years old, with only 800-1200 miles on it; a real bargain prices.

 

[roscoe]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

Oh yeah, if you are gonna be hauling the kids, look for or add hand wind guards and heated heated hand grips for the passenger.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

At the dealership where I had worked..... all the pre-owned sleds are stored deep in the sheds, the new ones that are now left-overs are in crates under the crates of 4 wheelers.

The other issues are most shops are dedicated towards other toys in the Summer. I agree w/Roscoe.... do not be afraid of an older sled but I would shy away from the older fanned cooled models. Look for carbides and inspect the track. If there are carbides installed ....... they are good wear indicators to the overall condition along with the ski's.

Yearly, the people that run the "snowmobile tours" replace all their sleds and they go cheap. Most of what they have are the older technology lower end sleds ....... can be a bargain to the right person.

Ski-Doo and Arctic Cat rule the trails here. Yamaha always came up with some wiz-bang innovation that would only be on the market a year.... there are some rare sleds out there ..... I would focus and stick to liquid cooled standard technology. BTW the most stolen item from a sled is now the computer/cpu!!! Who would have dreamed that statement would be true.

 

[NoKlu]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

I bought an older sled and it was a good sled and the price was right but the one thing I found was the seating position was to low and it was very uncomfortable to ride. I did get to ride it for a few minutes before the deal was struck and it seemed fine but the first day out on the trails my knees were so sore I never rode it again. I sold the sled. The newer sleds seating position is a lot higher than the older models and they are more comfortable to ride. What ever you buy make sure it fits your frame.

 

[tallcanadian]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

I'm an Arctic Cat fan. You can likely find a nice two up Pantera or Bearcat. 440 or 550 engines seem to be very reliable. I would definetaly not buy one without reverse. Especially for a novice. It will get you out of some tight spots. Also it is easier on the back should you get stuck. Stay away from Polaris 550 engines that are 4 or so years old. They are known to burn cylinders. Look around for a good mechanic. If you do buy a used sled, take the time and spend a few bucks on an inspection. This could save you a break down in the field. If a machine has 3 or 4000 miles on it, look for something else.

Just my two cents worth.

 

[john200]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

I am a cat fan but they are all good when they run. If you plan on letting you family drive them with out you get new sleds with electric start and revers look for a light sled for your wife and kids you don't want them to have to work hard to steer them or the inevitable of going off the trail and getting stuck. I would say go look at some new sleds see if your wife and kids can lift the back of the sled and move it over. skidoo make a small sled for younger kids that is bigger then a 120 and arctic cat has a small fan cooled sled yamaha only makes 4strokes so the weight will bee to much polaris is a great family sled but remember they all brake at some point so find a dealer that you like and ask around and see what other people think about the dealer that you are looking at dealing with theirs nothing worse then having a bad repair shop that takes to long or doesn't fix it right

 

[Rogue427]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

I like my Yamaha's My wife has a 99 600 Vmax Deluxe with reverse and electric start and a 2up seat. A very good sled IMHO.

 

[jkust]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

Well, I am in Maple Grove MN, so I am opposite your suburbs. The trails start a half block from my house and I had the same thought process as you but I started with sleds and moved to boats. Same amount of people here but my kids are very young. My wife had never driven a sled before but she learned just fine and she is a girly girl. Because there has been so little snow in MN over the last several years, we were able to buy two 1998 sleds (three years ago now) both with just over 1000 miles from original owners. So you can get low mile sleds with a few years for very cheep. We went with a 2-up Ski Doo Grand Touring 583 for the wife and I opted for an Arctic Cat ZR 600 EFI which is very performance oriented. My thoughts are that EFI on Sleds is absolutly the way to go. The Cat starts on the first or second pull as it is intended to every single time so no electric start needed. The Grand Touring is like driving a Cadillac with electric start but no EFI and a very cushy suspension. Ski Doo is generally regarded as the touring model to beat.
I will tell you that you absolutly, positivly need reverse on both sleds. I can't tell you how many jams it has gotten me out of. Especially on a 2-up since they are very heavy. If I were doing it over again knowing what I know now, I would never have gotten a performance sled like the ZR 600. It is fast as heck and you could jump off your roof with it but the ride (suspension) is just too harsh for a comfortable ride. I would likely buy another 2-up or just a trail sled which is another class of sled. A trail sled can be exactly like a performance sled just set up a little less agressive. The other thing i will mention is that sledding alone is generally regarded as a no-no so I would opt for two sleds. Then you will likely need a trailer whether you want one or not. You will need to be able to haul it for service at some point. I opted for a brand new Floe trailer since I will likely keep the trailer but continue to upgrade the sleds. If you look you will see that used trailers hold their value extremely well and much moreso than sleds so new was the way to go for me. You will then need to deal with storing the sleds and trailer in the off season which can be a pain. Lastly if you buy sleds, you will need a way to get them home so for me the trailer came befoe the sleds.

 

[rbh]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

in the mountain of bc, you go long track, big power to deal with all that deep powder.
my 2002 stock 700 summit is great but if you have long legs go for the rav style body, it is more like a motor cycle because you sit up higher and can throw it around due to the center of balance.
rob

 

[strokeoluck]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

Thanks much to all of you for taking the time to respond - I really appreciate it. I also found a good forum at www.snowmobilefanatics.com - reminds me of iboats. (Although their "Babes on Sleds" picture gallery is a touch unlike iboats ). I'm jotting all these tips/thoughts down and will take them with me when I start to explore sleds in the coming months. I was also told about "Hay Days" north of the Twin Cities and we may check that out if we haven't purchased anything by early Sept. And I completely agree w/the dealership comments. As life gets busier I've learned the value of a good local mechanic (getting harder to find all the time) and/or a good dealership nearby.

 

[strokeoluck]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

Because there has been so little snow in MN over the last several years, we were able to buy two 1998 sleds (three years ago now) both with just over 1000 miles from original owners.

Good stuff, thanks for all the info. I'm curious, roughly how many times per winter are you able to get out on a local ride? And do you take them anywhere else for a longer trip where there is more snow?

 

[jkust]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

Oh I forgot to mention, in the fall I transition to snowmobileforum.com. It is just like iboats. I had great luck buying both my sleds on craigslist while I noticed the sleds on carsoup.com are more expensive. I would do some pre research on how to buy a sled and what to look for on that site and go shopping prepared. Many times when buying a sled you can't ride it because there is no snow yet or when you are looking at it it is dark and very cold so you are in a hury and miss things. Each of the sleds/engines has their repair item they were notorious for. For instance on my Arctic Cat, if your speedometer doesn't work it usually indicated one of the bearings is going out not the speedo which is expensive to have fixed. You can get educated and when fall comes the sleds flood the market and you will be ready. Just learn enough not to buy someones problems and to spot the problems.

Good luck

 

[jkust]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

Good stuff, thanks for all the info. I'm curious, roughly how many times per winter are you able to get out on a local ride? And do you take them anywhere else for a longer trip where there is more snow?

Sorry, didn't see this earlier. Last winter was a big dissappointment. Every big storm went around the north west metro so I went out maybe 5 times but not on the trails since they never really opened due to not enough snow. I did the ditches instead where the plow leaves their snow and doubles the snow fall amount. Ditch riding is really the bottom of the barrel but is better than nothing. Northern minnesota in the Brainerd area got huge amounts of snow this winter. We go to a cabin by Mile Lacs and we made it up there one time after on of the huge snow falls. Really then we put maybe 60 miles on each sled. Another reason I like the used sleds is you don't feel too bad when they just sit. There is nothing more frustrating however than to have sleds and not have the snow to use them. I have to say getting two young kids ready for a ride is a huge pain and one of them doesn't like snowmobiling as much so it is a struggle to really just get on and ride. It helps a lot when you can ride from your house instead of making a big production out of it and having to drive to the snow. I will take short trips alone by home where I could walk to a road or house if I absolutly had to in the event of a break down. Which suburb do you live in?

 

[strokeoluck]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

Which suburb do you live in?

We live in Victoria, just west of Chaska. There's a house across the street from me, a pond behind him (and woods/wetlands/farmland beyond) and then a trail immediately behind the pond. Considering I was at this neighbor's house till midnight having drinks last night, I'm pretty sure we can ride through his side yard to get to the trail. If not, there are other easy access points within a 5-iron distance.

If that trail isn't available for lack of snow, I also see others riding around in the ditches here.

As for the little kids - I feel your pain. Ours are 10 (girl) and 9 (boy) now so it's a whole lot easier these days. I think the biggest challenge is whether or not our 10 year old girl is really going to enjoy it. I'm pretty certain our son will love it. But I guess if our daughter doesn't like it AND my wife could care less, then we can always just sell one of the sleds. Even now I find that we sometimes split our activities based on gender. This last weekend my son and I went golfing for a few hours while the girls went out to lunch and got their nails down. Then we all met up again to go out on the boat. It seems to work out fine.

I hear 'ya on used vs. new when it comes to looking at the toy and not getting to use it. We purchased a three year old 18' bowrider this summer and I'm glad we did it this way. If we have too many other social commitments and can't get out on a nice day, I don't feel "too" bad. Though for the most part we use it every weekend.

Oh, I'm also checking out snowmobileforum.com - good site.

Thanks again.

 

[Bob1958]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

Lots of good advice here already, but here are my thoughts:

1. As someone else said, make sure it's liquid cooled.
2. Make sure a used one has been maintained well. Have a sled mechanic take a look at it and even run the engine. Like anything else, if it's been negleted you'll have problems with it.
3. The 4 major manufacturers all make good sleds, so that's all just personal preference. If you can get something 5 years old or newer that would be preferable. I could tell you some stories from the 70s, but breaking down was a daily event back then.
4. If you don't already know it, learn sledding safety. We get 5 to 10 killed every year in upstate NY, mostly all due to stupidity and ignorance.

 

[jkust]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

We live in Victoria, just west of Chaska. There's a house across the street from me, a pond behind him (and woods/wetlands/farmland beyond) and then a trail immediately behind the pond. .

Yes we have a pond behind our house that I have to go over to get going. It is an interesting thing to cross the pond when we get a lot of snow before it freezes. As for which sled to buy, really all newer sleds are decent now days. That said I know lots of new sled owners that have tons of problems and break down on trails all the time. Just like anything though. I have noticed that the younger the rider, the more wreckless. We have had some close calls with younger riders but haven't had any issues with drunks yet. I noticed when shopping, you could tell if people really took care of their sleds by the gear lube condition. There is dipstick to check the level and you can clearly see who has not maintained its condition. It isn't too difficult to keep the exterior looking really nice but finding a sled that has had its mechanics maintained is the key. I didn't mention studs either. I noticed the presence of studs can be good or bad. When a sled doesn't have studs installed, it is somewhat of a selling point because they can damage the track and your garage floor prematurly. That said my ZR 600 has studs and my wife's Ski Doo doesn't. The difference in handling in certain circumstances is like night and day especially on ice. I actually credit the studs on my sled for avoiding a nasty head on collision (when my 3 year old was on board) with a young rider on the wrong side of the trail. Studs to me are losely like having a v8 in your boat, you don't need them but when you do you are glad you have them. My wife really struggles not having studs many times. The 2-up Ski Doo however has a longer track and handles deep snow better without boondocking.

 

[Soccerd6]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

http://www.snowest.com/forum/

I would NOT recommend buying a used sled 5+ years old.... the technology is night and day.... the suspension alone is worth buying newer.... but I would also not recommend buying new your first time around. It is DEFINATELY a buyer's market (I've been trying to sell one of my mod sleds for a year now, and am REALLY gonna take it in the shorts.... so to speak!)

We are mountain riders (long track, more power), so I'm not gonna try to recommend a sled, but I will say, the KEY to ensuring your wife and kids enjoy the experience is to keep them warm. Do NOT scrimp on gear..... I'm not saying go out and buy the most expensive you can find, but don't scrimp - you can find good used gear.... I SWEAR by Klim for everything but boots, and HMK for boots....

and if your wife likes sledding at all, she will NOT be happy with a 2-up....

 

[BF]

Re: snowmobile - which one to buy?

maybe it's up in the thread somewhere, but here's my $.02...

Make sure at least wifey's sled is electric start with reverse, and of course with hand/thumb warmer. For me, I would be happy with a pull start.

If you want her to be able to enjoy it, she'll need to feel comfortable that she can handle the machine... having to have someone come start the machine for you every time you stop doesn't inspire confidence. My wife can pull start her 500 easily (one hand while seated) when it's warm... but she can't start it when the motor's cold.

Everytime I have to muscle the sleds around, I wish they had reverse.

As others have said, I think all brands are pretty good now... Having said that, I have no idea about the 4 stroke's....

good luck.