so much for freedom of speech

[bootle]

Has anyone been watching how this incident has escalated in the last few days?<br /><br /> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4673908.stm

 

[tommays]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

Its not like Christians dont get all bent out of shape when a movie or something portrays Jesus in a way they dont like.<br /><br />Look at all the fuss about The Last Temption Of Christ<br /><br />tommays

 

[bootle]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

Holy crap! i posted on the wrong forum <br /><br />JB, HELP!!

 

[JB]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

By your command, Darth. To Dockside Chat.

 

[txswinner]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

tommays, your remark was in jest, I hope.

 

[tommays]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

i am serious there god has been shown in a way that the NORMAL MAIN STREAM MUSLIM finds offensive.<br /><br />I have seen many times when christans get very upset when christ is shown in a way they find offensive.<br /><br /><br />tommays

 

[jtexas]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

Freedom of speech also means freedom to use good judgement about what to say. It also means freedom to voice objections to material you find objectionable.<br /><br />Using good judgement is very similar to censorship, but not exactly the same.<br /><br />Example: if Darth's characterization of crap as holy offended me, I would be free to say so. Darth would be free to remove the reference.

 

[BRG25]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

Originally posted by jtexas:<br /> Freedom of speech also means freedom to use good judgement about what to say. It also means freedom to voice objections to material you find objectionable.<br /><br />Using good judgement is very similar to censorship, but not exactly the same.<br /><br />Example: if Darth's characterization of crap as holy offended me, I would be free to say so. Darth would be free to remove the reference.

Does that include the freedom to bomb Darth's house? It appears the reaction to the cartoons support the content.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

Yup, I don't remember any gun waving over "The last temptation", but I'm going to go ballistic when the Da Vinci code is released.... ...JK

 

[JB]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

Freedom of speech does not exist in many mainly Muslim countries, but that is beside the point.<br /><br />We, here in the USA (except on iboats, of course), are free to insult any religion, and those who hold that religion dear are free to be grossly offended.<br /><br />Along with any freedom comes the responsibility to use that freedom wisely and to accept the consequences of abuse of that freedom.<br /><br />I haven't seen the offending graphics, but I am pretty sure that they are tasteless in the extreme. Were I a Muslim I would be VERY angry about it. There would be consequences to face.

 

[jtexas]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

Originally posted by BRG25:<br />

Originally posted by jtexas:<br /> Freedom of speech also means freedom to use good judgement about what to say. It also means freedom to voice objections to material you find objectionable.<br /><br />Using good judgement is very similar to censorship, but not exactly the same.<br /><br />Example: if Darth's characterization of crap as holy offended me, I would be free to say so. Darth would be free to remove the reference.

Does that include the freedom to bomb Darth's house? It appears the reaction to the cartoons support the content.

Last time I checked, suicide bombing is a protected form of free speech. Okay, I've never actually checked, but...

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

To my mind there are some peculiar unwritten rules about human beings and causing offense to a group of people by making fun of them... <br /><br />EITHER: you are a member of that group - you can make as much fun of them as you want. For example I can make fun of kiwis, boaters, computer nerds etc etc and be safe from causing offense.<br /><br />OR: the group being ridiculed is english-speaking, middle class males. One group that never takes offence and is FAIR GAME TO EVERYONE!

 

[txswinner]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

I found the comparison of Christian (it is capitalized as a proper noun) reaction to "Temptation of Christ" and the reaction to kidnap correspondence more than ridiculous.<br /><br />Was the cartoon in poor taste and bad judgement; without a doubt. However, the response should have been to demand an apology for poor taste and an agreement to not do again.<br /><br />I oppose the required political correctness of today but there are limits (and I push them at every opportunity) but outright attacks on a peoples mortal soul can get you in a heap of trouble.<br /><br />Oh jtexas, suicide bombing is not longer protected (darn republicans took that away also).

 

[bootle]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

Edited.<br />Please don't bomb my house I promise that i would'nt do anymore invading

 

[BRG25]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

Originally posted by JB:<br /> Along with any freedom comes the responsibility to use that freedom wisely and to accept the consequences of abuse of that freedom.<br /><br />I haven't seen the offending graphics, but I am pretty sure that they are tasteless in the extreme. Were I a Muslim I would be VERY angry about it. There would be consequences to face.

Angry? Fine, however...<br /><br />"Palestinian gunmen briefly surrounded EU offices in Gaza to demand an apology over the cartoons."<br /><br />Uhhh...well to quote Lewis Black:<br /><br />"Our enemy is scary because they have no sense of humor. These are people who wandered the desert and NEVER ran into a knock knock joke."

 

[bootle]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

Originally posted by BRG25:<br /><br />"Our enemy is scary because they have no sense of humor. These are people who wandered the desert and NEVER ran into a knock knock joke."

It is very obvious that you have never come into contact with, or possess any first hand knowledge of muslims. <br /><br />To suggest that they're all enemies and a bunch of humorless desert wandering nomads is nothing further from the truth.<br /><br />Indeed if they were all our enemy, your assessment would certainly be one of gross underestimation.

 

[BRG25]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

You're missing the point. Of course I'm not suggesting that all Muslims are like that. However this guy obviosly has no sense of humor. I'm mean in poor taste or not...they're just CARTOONS.<br /><br />

 

[jtexas]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

Actually, any visual image of Mohammed is against Islamic law. Meaning that good taste/bad taste/funny/stupid doesn't really matter to them.<br /><br />And I bet you just included that knock-knock joke because the guy's Black. Wait...never mind...

 

[rolmops]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

There is a big culture clash here,that most members do not even realize.<br />JB thinks that these cartoons are probably tasteless in the extreme.In Islam the words "thou shalt not have any graven images" are taken very very seriously where it concerns Mohammed or Allah.Any cartoon with even the slightest hint of making these two characters look funny,would have made muslims go ballistic.<br />As for mainstream moslems who are upset about this.<br />Please show me a Mainstream moslem in the Gaza strip and I will show you a fanatic.

 

[bootle]

Re: so much for freedom of speech

Originally posted by rolmops:<br /> There is a big culture clash here,that most members do not even realize.<br />JB thinks that these cartoons are probably tasteless in the extreme.In Islam the words "thou shalt not have any graven images" are taken very very seriously where it concerns Mohammed or Allah.Any cartoon with even the slightest hint of making these two characters look funny,would have made muslims go ballistic.<br />As for mainstream moslems who are upset about this.<br />Please show me a Mainstream moslem in the Gaza strip and I will show you a fanatic.

I totally agree with what you've said, however taking into consideration of not being the ones that were living under occupation for nearly 40 years, could the same yardstick be used when applied to the settlers in the occupied territories?