SOLVED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

[Bustedknuckle84]

After replacing my impeller i had an issue mounting the lower part back up to the upper housing unit. Here are pics of the lower units shift shaft. I can turn the prop clockwise and it rachets, counter clockwise it moves the driveshaft. When turning the driveshaft it moves prop both ways. Please end my problems....:facepalm:

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

That's a mercury designed lower unit. The shift shaft has detents for forward, neutral, and reverse. Sometimes, you move the shift shaft without realizing it and it is no longer in neutral when you attach the lower unit.

Turn it all the way in one dir4ction until it detents, then to be sure, all the way in the other direction. Next, back it to the center detent. It will now be in neutral. Set the control lever in neutral or if the cables are not attached, set the engine in neutral. Then connect the coupler and attach the lower unit. It should now shift properly.

 

[Bustedknuckle84]

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

excuse my ignorance but when you say detents, what am i listening or looking for. If i understand you correctly turn the prop clockwise(racheting) until this detents. And the turn prop counterclockwise until detents.

also Frank could you tell me if the length of the shift shaft looks correct?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

NOT the prop or prop shaft! It does sound like the lower unit is in Forward gear. The Mercury dogs are shaped like saw teeth or ramps. So when you turn the prop in the forward direction, the drive dogs slide up each other's ramps and then click back down. When you turn the prop in reverse direction, the drive dogs engage and then the drive shaft will turn.

The shift shaft twists from side to side. It does not pull up or push down as the older Force units did. A detent is a stop. I'm not sure how Mercury did it, but sometimes it is a spring loaded ball that pushes into a dent or a cam and sort-of locks it there.

At any rate, the shift shaft will stop in three locations: Forward, neutral, and reverse. I forget which way is forward. But, as you turn the shift shaft, you will feel it stop at these points and it will take more force to turn it. NOT EXCESSIVE though. If you can't turn it one direction with reasonable force, try the other way. AS I said above, the center position is neutral.

 

[Bustedknuckle84]

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

Ah hah! Frank your the man! It makes sense and you are right, the shift shaft twists to the to the right and left .however, You can lift it up alittle and it will stay in place but i wont do that anymore. Man you guys on the forum help out alot i swear!

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

From the back of the drive.Turn shift shaft to the left.Reach down and pull up on the right side of the prop.This is FORWARD.Make sure the shifter is in forward.Then install it.All the time pulling up on the right blade.This will keep it in gear and will help mesh the splines on the drive shaft.J

 

[Bustedknuckle84]

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

UPDATE: I worked on it again today, tried both ways from Frank and Jerry yet the prop still spins foward when i connect the lower unit up. Whats the next thing to check since the lower unit is stuck in foward regardless of shift shafts direction.

More info: The shift shaft does move up about a half inch of play.

Added Picture#1(inside)&#2(outside): Can you tell me, In the picture I have damage to the driveshaft housing(coupler went through and caused a hole) Will this cause a stuck in foward problem?

Please Help guys i really wanna get this boat goin again for the spring time. Ive done alot of work so far, and will try my best to give as much info needed.

 

[carholme]

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

furyman;

If you can lift the shift shaft upwards by 1/2", this means that you have probably disengaged the splines of the shaft from the shift cam (item 18), as the cam is only about 3/8" thick. If you have been able to do this, E ring, (item 37) would appear to not be locked in position or is missing.

Do you have the LU off at the moment? If so, can you turn the shift shaft 360 degrees with your fingers. If so, the shaft is not engaged with the cam and you are not actually shifting gears, just turning the shift shaft.

If the shift shaft was engaged with the shift cam, you would need a pair of pliers to rotate the shaft 360 degrees through the shift range.

Please let us know the situation.

Gerry

 

[Bustedknuckle84]

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

i dont believe it turns 360, so i will check tonight when i get home, thankyou for the help and info i like learning new stuff

 

[Bustedknuckle84]

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

Shift shaft turns 180, heres the pictures *start with the 2nd one* with marks to show from 1 stop "detent' to the next stop "detent" .
tried with pliers to turn the shift shaft more but felt like it was needing alot of force which may break something.
1)does it need alot of force to turn it past the 180 mark?
2)and in which direction do i turn it?

 

[carholme]

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

Re: Lower unit stuck in foward or reverse gear not sure????

furyman;

180 degrees is not bad as that is just the back side of the shift cam. Here is a link to a rewal picture of your shift cam:

http://img687.imageshack.us/i/glm11185.jpg/

Have you had this out at all and if so did you install it as per the manual? It has to be installed with the correct side up so that it can make contact with the follower shaft, seen here in item 10:

http://www.crowleymarine.com/mercury-outboard/parts/2531_180.cfm

The follower shaft engages the detent positions on the cam as you rotate the shift shaft. These are the detent positions that Frank was talking about. It does take some pressure get the follower to ride up on the detent positions on the cam but if you are feeling an extreme resistance, it suggests that the cam is upside down and you are coming up against the back side of the cam.

In this link, you will see a picture of another LU but the shift range will be the same as yours.

White = Neutral
Green = Forward
Red = Reverse

This unit is presently in neutral with the white on the shift shaft aligned with the white on the LU case.

http://img267.imageshack.us/i/shiftrange.jpg/

Gerry

 

[Bustedknuckle84]

Re: UPDATED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

Re: UPDATED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

How do i get the cam right side up?
this does make sence because the shaft does seem to long and it pushed the shift shaft coupler through my driveshaft housing (due to my install error)
thankyou for the time and info.

 

[carholme]

Re: UPDATED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

Re: UPDATED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

furyman;

That is why I asked the question, " Have you had this out at all and if so did you install it as per the manual?" If we are going to help you get this fixed, we have to know what you have done and what may have gone wrong.

So, one step at a time.

Because of this mention of the shift shaft being able to move vertically, the cam itself may have moved and when you thought you had the shaft installed correctly, it was actually sitting atop the cam, rather than being engaged in it's splines. This, I think is what caused your cracking problem when you tried to install the LU. This is why you are worried that the shift shaft is too long.

To try and get a better determination, if you still have the LU off, lift up on the shift shaft and holding it up, rotate it and see if it will rotate 360 degrees. Let us know.


Gerry

 

[Bustedknuckle84]

Re: UPDATED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

Re: UPDATED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

Gerry,
this is making more and more sense very good explanation.
here is a link to my other thread earilier when i had problem installing the lower unit. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=454112

You can say i tried installing it as per OEM Manual. I tried installing lower unit with the throttle lever in the foward postition. What i didnt know is that the LU should be clsoe to flush before racheting down. When i mounted the LU i didnt lift up on the prop to guide the driveshaft into the flywheel (which makes the LU go flush). so i racheted it down (being new to the outboard) and then heard cracking. pulled off tried again same thing but got worse. (as you can see in the link above)

Gerry i will check when i get home tonight and report back, thanks again for your help.

 

[carholme]

Re: UPDATED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

Re: UPDATED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

Are you saying that you tried to tighten the LU bolts while the driveshaft splines were not engaged? OK, then I guess we can eliminate the shift shaft length worry.

That leaves us with the shift cam and installation of the LU. Remember when the LU is being installed to have it in the same gear as the controls are in.

Getting back to the problem, we have to determine if there is a problem with the shift cam and it's position.


1. Did you have the LU completely apart, ie; the prop shaft, clutch and forward and reverse gears out?

2. If not, I believe you said somewhere else that when you removed the LU, the shift shaft came out completely. Was this the case?

3. If not, I am still worried about the correct position of the shift cam based on your confirmation that the shift shaft can rise vertically about .5". Therefore, when you get a chance, lift up the shift shaft as far as it will go and holding it there, tell us if you can rotate it 360 degrees. If you can, it means that it is removed from the splines on the cam. Obviously, if you cannot, it is not disengaging from the cam splines.

Please answer each one of these questions in order.

Gerry

 

[Bustedknuckle84]

Re: UPDATED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

Re: UPDATED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

Gerry,
That is correct i tightened it while the splines were not fully engaged.
Will this cause the coupler (that joints the 2 shafts from lower unit and from the driveshaft housing) to push through the housing as in pics?

1) it is not apart at all, i havent tore it down at all.

2) Shift shaft has not come out completly only moves up 1/2 inch( i believe)

3) I will verify the length of travel as well as verify if it can turn 360 degrees while holding it up. from what i remember it stays in the "up" position and doesnt fall back down. I dont beleive it turns 360 while in theis position.
Should i try using a socket to turn the shift shaft?

 

[carholme]

Re: UPDATED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

Re: UPDATED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

Socket or pliers but after looking at the picture of the cam, you should be able to see what happens when you are turning it. As the follower shaft rides up against the gear select portions of the cam, it will find the detents for the reverse, neutral and forward positions. You can verify which position it is in by turning the prop, We'll sort that out later.

Gerry

 

[Bustedknuckle84]

Re: UPDATED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

Re: UPDATED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

You can verify which position it is in by turning the prop, We'll sort that out later.

Gerry

Gerry,
i dunno if this is useful to you but regardless of which way i turn the shift shaft, the prop only has resistence counterclockwise.

I get off work tonight and will report back to answer the 3) question.

 

[carholme]

Re: UPDATED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

Re: UPDATED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

furyman;

Never mind the prop right now, that just tells us that it is stuck in one gear. We now have to get the shift shaft to correctly operate the shift cam so we can change gears.

Gerry

 

[Bustedknuckle84]

Re: UPDATED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

Re: UPDATED: lower unit stuck in foward not sure why????

still no luck tried pulling up and rotating, however still rotated to the same marks as before. :facepalm:
dont know if this helps but while rotating prop (clockwise) i can feel the vibrations of the racheting on the shift shaft when the prop rotates.
However i was wong about the travel length its little less then 1/4" of travel see pics