SOLVED :) Tilt/Trim: Take off unit, seals on tilt, and refill, reversed polarity

[stewfish1818]

Re: Tilt cylinder removal: Updated

Re: Tilt cylinder removal: Updated

Levi you have been inspirational and helpful. Thank you!

I got it off, yahoo!!!!

I went out and looked at oxy-acet torches and didn't want to spend $300 and no need to melt it right . So, I got a bernzomatic oxy-mapp torch it puts a pretty good blue flame, surprisingly for $59 bucks.

Anyway I heated the block (More toward the thicker side so I wouldn't weaken the thinner sections too much) for 3 minutes and sprayed PB blaster figured I would give it a try over WD-40 anyway did both sides. Then I had the wife who watched me do it follow suit with the same thing, back and forth as I pounded it. 20 minutes later it was out. I also broke the head off my brand new 3lb mallot and it fell in the channel. Dhuuooo.

Uh, how do I get this stupid tilt cylinder top off. Heat the cylinder?

I built a tool and pretty much bent my dewalt tool good.

Tool I built - Cut out wrap around tabs from a big piece of 2" angle iron that is about 3' long. drilled and welded on some bolts that would fit into the holes. When I tried it after dinner it bent the angle iron edges that wrap around and twisted the bolts. Ugghh

Maybe heat treat the angle iron in water to make it harder?

 

[stewfish1818]

Re: Tilt cylinder removal: Updated

Re: Tilt cylinder removal: Updated

Ah maybe 1/4" instead of 1/8" thick. Another run to the store tomorrow.

 

[levi_tsk]

Re: Tilt cylinder removal: Updated

Re: Tilt cylinder removal: Updated

you bent your spanner wrench didnt you? lol
now you have to build one and itll probably look just like mine. when i was doing my trim cylinders i broke a friend of mines on the first pull of the handle
glad to hear you got it out though man oh and if you want to heat treat something get it red hot and dunk it in oil. old motor oil works pretty good just have a fire extinguisher handy

 

[kennethbickle]

Re: Tilt cylinder removal. will make how-to for secret file sticky

Re: Tilt cylinder removal. will make how-to for secret file sticky

If we all bought service manuals, you would get no attention.

 

[stewfish1818]

Re: Tilt cylinder removal: I got it off !!!!

Re: Tilt cylinder removal: I got it off !!!!

Service manuals suck! The details about tools, heating, ideas etc are left out. Trick of the trade is why we come here. Service manuals show you how to take apart something not how to take it apart well, or even if it's possible after 20 years of corrosion. Thus I have lead all future people to use a good oxy-acet or oxy-mapp torch when doing it. Oh, and a huge punch that had one of the flanges that extends out so if you miss the end a little you wont hit your hand as you grip the whole punch with all 5 fingers, but also so that you can hit it as hard as humanly possible.

Ba humbug to them

Mine just said hammer the pin out with a punch.

Ha, 3 days of penetrating fluids and torches with sludge hammers. I'm surprised the body didn't break apart since it's less than 1" in parts, which worried me the most, which is why I wanted to drill or press it out.

We'll see how the new tool works tomorrow. Should I heat the cylinder? I assume I need to clamp it on the flat portions where the hose goes in or anywhere?

I'm sceptical again

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Tilt cylinder removal: I got it off !!!!

Re: Tilt cylinder removal: I got it off !!!!

It is best not to heat the trim cylinder, since you can melt the seals. Certainly use the PB Blaster and some vibration to help it penetrate. A little heat is OK, but be careful. Smacking the spanner gently, might work a bit as well.

 

[stewfish1818]

Re: Tilt / Trim cylinder & Motor removal: I got it off !!!!

Re: Tilt / Trim cylinder & Motor removal: I got it off !!!!

The flat bar only came in 3/8 which worked fine rolled steel tubing worked perfect. The tool worked perfectly the first try with no pressure probably because it was 48" long. why cut it down and that was the shortest they had at Lowes. Home Depot didn't have either 3/8 or cold rolled tubing.

I got it back together and filled the reseviour all the way full (on it's side). I then installed it and when I hit the up button it went down. I later thought I may have bumped the trim button on the boat up or down and changed the switch the wrong way. I will see today.

Anyway, Istalling it was sooooo easy. I took at the corrosion and the pin slid in by hand like a knife through warm butter, I was so surprised.

Now I just have to get it to work. It won't trim up. It's as if the pump is not filling the piston, but I can hear it moving the fluid. I figured it needed more fluid after a couple tries but it didn't go up to purge the air. I opened the fill screw and fluid leaked out. The piston can only go together one way and the 4 springs and tiny balls would fall out if I had them facing up in the cylinder, so I am at a loss except for the trim switch attached on the boat that is flipped when the engine goes up and down. Should I fill the cylinder as well, and lower or upper section of the cylinder (as related to the piston ring).

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Tilt / Trim cylinder & Motor removal: I got it off !!!!

Re: Tilt / Trim cylinder & Motor removal: I got it off !!!!

I do not remember the year of that motor, however, see if you can lift it by hand while running the ptt motor in the up direction. Now lock it up and fill the resevoir. Run it down and then up, helping it as necessary, and lock it up. Let is sit a few minutes and then refill resevoir. Now repeat the sequence, run it down, run it up, let it sit and then refill resevoir, several times, until all the air is out.

 

[stewfish1818]

Re: Tilt / Trim cylinder & Motor removal: I got it off !!!!

Re: Tilt / Trim cylinder & Motor removal: I got it off !!!!

Chris,

1990 150

I did what you said about 15 times and the motor just kept doing the same thing. I would hit the button and you could here the bubbles flowing for a little bit then sounded normal. After about the 5th time the reservoir was staying full with no change in the ability for the system to lift the motor. sucks! I could get the two trim tabs to go down; they did hold it unlike the tilt cylinder.

I took it back off again in about 20 minutes now that the pin is easy to get out and the cylinder top was easily removed. All looks well no broken o rings that got mashed up by catching and edge when I put it together.

1.) What about filling the cylinder 7/8 full just prior to putting the plunger in, and then fill the reservoir completely full then put it back on the boat? The reason I ask is because I had my tilt falling down a 5 months ago so I tried to fill it up just as you said to do. 30 minutes later, it was working working so so, and slowly falling down slowly. I filled the cylinder a much as possible above the screw threads filling the upper section of the reservoir and quickly put the screw in before much could fall out thus adding another cup or so and it worked flawlessly. It just doesn't want to fill up.....argh

Secondly why would the motor be going backwards. It goes up when I press down and down when I press up. I left the wires connected and just took the motor top off and the brushes (little metal block attached to a wire) and springs came off the motor and I took it inside leaving the brushes attached to the cap wrapped with a ziplock bag when I rebuilt the cylinder. I thought I would be able to unscrew the wires once I got the cap off, but nooooo I almost lost the springs. I could see it if I switched the wires but the brushed can only go into one slot.

3.) The boat had a black switch which I think is the trim start switch telling it when to start. Can it be adjusted, or affect how the tilt works, or give me headaches? It freely moves back and forth 180 degrees+. Did it get broken with all the hands that were in there helping me out and bumping things around as we put the system back together the first time??? Is it free flowing or should it click like a switch?

 

[nymack66]

Re: Tilt / Trim cylinder & Motor removal: I got it off !!!!

Re: Tilt / Trim cylinder & Motor removal: I got it off !!!!

Do NOT over fill the unit as you mentioned, Fill it in the upright position and level with the fill plug. Use the manual release valve to bleed the system as outlined below, check and refill as necessary through the process. Connect the T&T back on the motor, have someone assist the motor as you trim up. If the motor fails to stay trimmed in the upright position under load you might a have a stuck valve. If it holds you have have trapped air and needs to be worked out. If I remember correctly I loosen the release screw and manually lifted the engine to the up position, tighten the release screw and use the trim switch to lower the motor, repeat this process until the air is out the system. Hopefully you resolve it.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Tilt / Trim cylinder & Motor removal: I got it off !!!!

Re: Tilt / Trim cylinder & Motor removal: I got it off !!!!

Joe Reeves had posted a method to force trapped air out of Johnnyrude PTT units, by using some compressed air. You might PM him with your issue and see if he can help.

 

[stewfish1818]

Re: SOLVED Tilt/Trim: Take off unit, seals on tilt, and refill, reversed polarity

Ah ha that makes sense! Hadn't thought about that.

OK I called the dealer this morning. They are great to me after buying a $450 fuel pump etc from them and know me by name. I asked if I could pre-fill the cylinder prior to install back onto the boat and they said that is what they do.

Originally I put fluid in the bottom of the cylinder and put the piston on top. However, if it was not going to work them it would be a pain to not have the piston down and try and find a place for it to rest while I hooked up the electrical to see if it would work.

I put the piston all the way down as much as possible to get my fluid bottle nozzle between the cap and cyclinder and filled it up all the way leaving just a tiny bit of air. All while the resivour was full to the brim from having the unit on it's side.

Put it on and it worked perfectly. Yahoo!!!!!!!!!

I had it off the transport latch and mid way tilted and the motor did not slowly go down. So it looks like all is holding well and solved.

The dealer said I reversed the polarity of the brushed. My friend put the springs and brushes back into the motor cap slots as I used some thin knives to hold the brushes in while I slid them onto the motor. We must not have been paying attention due to what a pain the procedure was and must have switched the brushed from one side to the other if that is even possible. I am very surprised. I'm just going to switch the wires near the motor's switch as they dealer told me it would work until I have to do the tilt seals or it breaks again.

THANK YOU EVERYONE