Somebody please bring me back to reality...

[JoLin]

If it's what you and your wife really want, then you should check it out thoroughly. It's just so, so important that you understand the true costs of ownership of a big old wooden boat. Picture a fully equipped summer home, with all it's plumbing, electrical and HVAC systems, dropped into the water. Maintenance and repair will be a full time job. Marine-specific parts cost 3 times as much as they would for a home. And at the end of the day, if you decide to sell you'll need to find that one in a thousand buyer as nutty as you are

4 years ago I crewed on a 1960's, all wood, 40' Chris Craft sportfisherman during a 6 hour run to take it to its new home. Gorgeous, spotless boat. After several years of trying to sell it, the PO had to let it go for $2,000, about what it would have cost him to scrap it. The new owner is very well to do and in no way would he attempt to maintain it himself.

I know I'm being naysayer here, but I just don't see how a working stiff with a family can hope to keep something like that. I personally think you're setting yourself up for thousands upon thousands in unexpected cost, and a boat that'll deteriorate because you simply don't have the time and resources to keep up with it.

It was a rich man's boat when it was new, and it's a rich man's boat now.

My .02

 

[Drew220]

It's a really great lake. It's a party lake and a lot of money is on it. A lot of NASCAR drivers have houses out here. What kind stinks is the lake is so crazy during the weekends that we almost never go out. Weekdays only. Otherwise it's so rough just going fast enough to stay on plane is painful.

But I hear the northern part of the lake, which we've never been, is really nice.

Here's the lake.



You can see where we live. 10 minute drive to the south east corner. Only during the fall after most have already winterized, during the week, will we go to a restaurant where 77 passes over the eastern part of the lake near Davidson. It takes a solid 30 minutes to get there cruising at 30-32 mph. To give you an idea, drive to statesville on the highway at 80 takes 30 minutes. It's a big lake for sure. That's why I'm considering something really kind of stupid big for a lake. Man it'd be so fun to spend some weekends out there. See the yellow highway on the north west part of the river? That's I40. That's where the damn is. We'd be able to boat all they way up there. That's a long ways.

So what's funny is my wife is looking up boats as we speak. She's all in. But the more she looks, the bigger the boats get. She keeps going back to the old Chris Crafts, she likes them better. But what we're finding is some of the newer boats have much better lay outs, from what we can tell from pics. So maybe a newer (like early 90's or late 80's) will give us more usability for the size boat.

I'd really like twin diesels. But a pair of 327's would be fine.


Great advice about all the small crap. Pumps and what not. I don't mind replacing them, but the ability to get to them is something I'll keep an eye out for.

We are pretty much neighbors. I live just down the street closer to beatties ford road. I keep my boat at West Huntersville Storage. We sometimes head up to the North part of the lake to the state park and it is nice but don;t expect it to be any less busy. If i do that I usually launch my boat in Denver to save on fuel.

I will also put in on Mountain Island Lake if i want some calmer water. Not to many big boats on it.

 

[transamconvert]

I've only driven by Norman but it always looked nice. It's not stupid big at all. When I started looking I was in for a 32-34, once the wife got hold of things it ended up being 40. That's the way they are. But really once you're into a big boat with twins and all the hotel systems the incremental cost and maintenance difference isn't that much. Actually I found bigger boats to be the same price or cheaper because demand was lower. A bigger boat will cut those wakes too, you won't even feel them.

Do you have diesel available or would you have to have it delivered? Also, diesels don't like to put and old ones can be very stinky. That's what turned us onto gas engines. If I were coastal it would have to be diesel but inland I think gas is the way to go.

I know you said you didn't like a bridge boat, how do you feel about a big express? http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1988-SEA-RAY-390-Express-102796301
Dock neighbor has one of these and it's actually a really nice layout.

 

[Steve91T]

Still in love the that big old wooden CC.

But....what about something like this? Asking more about the make and model. Doesn't look like it has a shower though. Not my favorite as far as looks, but the lay out is decent. I've been reading about Marinette's and they pros and cons of the aluminum hull.


http://www.boats.com/power-boats/1968-marinette-4837676/#.V8mzwTT3anN

Idk, not really digging the interior. Too bad because there's a lot of them for sale.

 

[Steve91T]

If it's what you and your wife really want, then you should check it out thoroughly. It's just so, so important that you understand the true costs of ownership of a big old wooden boat. Picture a fully equipped summer home, with all it's plumbing, electrical and HVAC systems, dropped into the water. Maintenance and repair will be a full time job. Marine-specific parts cost 3 times as much as they would for a home. And at the end of the day, if you decide to sell you'll need to find that one in a thousand buyer as nutty as you are

4 years ago I crewed on a 1960's, all wood, 40' Chris Craft sportfisherman during a 6 hour run to take it to its new home. Gorgeous, spotless boat. After several years of trying to sell it, the PO had to let it go for $2,000, about what it would have cost him to scrap it. The new owner is very well to do and in no way would he attempt to maintain it himself.

I know I'm being naysayer here, but I just don't see how a working stiff with a family can hope to keep something like that. I personally think you're setting yourself up for thousands upon thousands in unexpected cost, and a boat that'll deteriorate because you simply don't have the time and resources to keep up with it.

It was a rich man's boat when it was new, and it's a rich man's boat now.

My .02

I really appreciate your comment. Are these costs you are talking about specific to the wood hull? If it's in good shape now, what kind of normal preventative maintenance should I expect? And how would that differ from the aluminum hulls?

 

[Steve91T]

So check out the Chris Craft Catalina 35'. Looks like a very similar to the old wooden Chris Craft that we like.


http://www.boattrader.com/listing/19...lina-102072044


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KgeobhzudEU


What are your thoughts? It doesn't have the cool factor that the old wooden one had, but other than that we really like the size and lay out a lot. And it's fiberglass so hopefully less upkeep.
Again, the two above are just examples of the type of boat that keeps grabbing our attention.

Actually check this out that my wife just found.


http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1980-CHRIS-CRAFT-350-Catalina-102612183

 

[transamconvert]

It's a bit easier if you make a list of things you absolutely want and things that would be nice. If you need 2 separate staterooms, a shower, etc. Then you can compare more easily.

Those Chris's are aft cabins. The only thing I don't like about that is you have to climb a long way to the swim platform, but your preferences may vary. Lots of people have aft cabin boats because of more interior space.

Have you checked out forum.woodenboat.com ?

I can't see your link above. Aluminum in fresh water will last forever, as evidenced by how many of them are still out there. The 37 aft cabin is probably what you want. I have personal experience with these, great boats and good for a young family. http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1981-MARINETTE-37-102638821

 

[Steve91T]

It's a bit easier if you make a list of things you absolutely want and things that would be nice. If you need 2 separate staterooms, a shower, etc. Then you can compare more easily.

Those Chris's are aft cabins. The only thing I don't like about that is you have to climb a long way to the swim platform, but your preferences may vary. Lots of people have aft cabin boats because of more interior space.

Have you checked out forum.woodenboat.com ?

I can't see your link above. Aluminum in fresh water will last forever, as evidenced by how many of them are still out there. The 37 aft cabin is probably what you want. I have personal experience with these, great boats and good for a young family. http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1981-MARINETTE-37-102638821

Try that link again, it was still working for me. Otherwise search 1980 Chris Craft Catilina 35'. You're right, the art cabin is what we like. And you're comment about the swim platform is something we noticed also.

What we like about it is it has 3 separate areas. Aft cabin and full head with shower, the V birth with the almost bunk style beds is pretty cool. And the saloon is awesome. Big, roomy and the kitchen is really spacious. We love to cook, so that's important. We saw one person actually had a peninsula with two bar stools. That's really neat. I also really like the helm and upper deck. With wrap around seating, that's a good space for hanging out. Also the front towards the bow has the small built in bench seat. that's pretty nice.

This thing is heavy, over 17k lbs, so it'll hopefully be pretty smooth and stable. It doesn't look as cool as the old woodie, this one is more like a beluga whale, but it's not terrible. But that interior set up is really what we like.

I'll check out that wooden boat forum. I've read enough that I need to stay away from them.

So, that 1980 35' Chris Craft says it cruises at about 15kts. What kind of gph can I expect? Still trying to get an idea of what these things cost to opporate.

 

[JoLin]

I really appreciate your comment. Are these costs you are talking about specific to the wood hull? If it's in good shape now, what kind of normal preventative maintenance should I expect? And how would that differ from the aluminum hulls?

Some of it would be specific to a wooden hull, but not all. Look, it's a big old boat. Old engines, old running gear, old plumbing, old electrical systems. I don't know how to get any more specific. Understand that I'm not trying to put you down in any way, but I personally don't think you have a good grasp of what you're getting into. You keep talking about how beautiful and 'classic' it is. I don't doubt it for a minute, but IMO you're violating the first rule in buying a used boat- you NEVER, EVER fall in love with a boat before you buy. Stay on point and save the emotional attachment for later.

I said it before and I'll say it again- it was (and still is) a rich man's boat. Not many people could have afforded to buy and keep it when it was new. That dynamic doesn't change just because it's old and cheap to buy now. It's cheap because nobody wants it. Nobody wants it because it's a time and money pit.

But, it's your time and money. If you decide to buy it I wish you the best of luck with it.

My .02

 

[transamconvert]

Probably .5 to .8 mpg at cruise. Maybe 1.5 at displacement speed. Fuel won't be your top expense by a long shot so don't worry about it too much.

 

[Scott Danforth]

All old boats have old motors and drives. However a set of points can be field set with matchbook.


Old has motors can also be swapped for new motors or diesels.

All boats need maintenance. Wood boats need to be hauled out, inspected, caulked, bottom painted, etc once a year.

Slip kept aluminum boats need to be hauled out, inspected, zincs changed, bottom painted, etc about once every other year

Slip kept fiberglass boats need to be hauled out, inspected, bottom painted, etc at least once every other year.

Teak requires yearly maintenance...caulking, sanding, oiling, etc

Find that old guy at the marina that works on old wooden boats.... But him lunch, beer, etc....what ever it takes to glean some of the vast knowledge on maintenance of wood boats. Do some reading and researching on your own. Yes wood hulls require maintenance, however a properly built wood hull will only need about double the maintenance of a fiberglass boat.

Wood boats require carpentry skills. If you don't have carpentry skills, it's not the boat for you.

That Chris Craft is a better built hull than say a badger, however not as good as a Hacker-Craft.

Wood boats have a great feel to them, compared to fiberglass

Wood boats need to stay in the water so the wood remains swollen. When put on the hard, they require about 2-3 days hanging on the slings with pumps running tho be returned to the water.

Is the additional maintenance elbow grease required a detriment?... Only the OP can answer.

 

[72fj40]

If you like scrapping, sanding and painting go for it. Wood boats need a lot of maintenance. Back in the 80s, our family boat was a wooden 21ft Cruiser Inc lap sided runabout. An absolutely beatiful, great, smooth riding boat. It rode much better than our current fiberglass 23ft CC lancer. As Scott mentioned earlier, wood boats leak /seap water for a while until the wood swells. We kept in the water for the season, because of this. We had to scrap, sand and repaint about every other year or so. Big CC are cool, but I couldn't imagine, doing this work on a 40ft boat. On this site there is a wood boat guru, that goes by Ned L or something like that. I would try to track him down, and get his expertise. He's currently doing a restoration of a huge wooden boat in the restoration section on this site. Check him out.

 

[ricohman]

If the boat is 13000lbs dry its going to weigh a lot more than that on the trailer. A lot more.
I've owned several 7.3's and 4 superdutys including my 2015 F350 6.7. There is no way the 99' is going to haul that around when max tow was 13000 with an empty truck. You will need a one ton dually on a goose and permits to tow it. Maybe a pilot car.

 

[Steve91T]

Thanks guys for the responses, that really helped clear up some questions I had. I do love that old Chris craft, but there are some things that we don't like that the 80's CC does have. Plus there's the advantage of being fiberglass. I'll stay away from wood.


The work required on the systems doesn't bother me, I actually enjoy it. I've got a 2000 Camaro in the garage that I bought cheap as a flip because it needs a new cam and lifters. I'm pulling the engine this afternoon.

My wife can't wait to come up with a remodel plan for the interior. She really likes it and is good at it. It wouldn't be anything crazy, but refinishing old wood and recovering fabric will make a big difference.

We do our own bathroom and kitchen remodels, including moving walls if we have to. And I do all our own maintenance on the vehicles. I also know my limitations. I can pull an engine in my 2 car garage, but pulling the tranny out of my truck is something I leave to the pros.

I'm not trying to brag in any way, just trying to give an idea of what we are like. So far I haven't hear anything that sounds too awful, except for the work required for a wood boat. That idea is out. The recommendation to find a boat that allows access to the systems is a good one. Replacing a blower motor isn't hard, unless you can't get to it.

Our plan is to not get super serious about buying until early next year. We're going to walk the docks, talk to people about their likes and dislikes. It'll also give us time to wait for the perfect boat time come around. Kinda of like when buying a house.

 

[Steve91T]

If the boat is 13000lbs dry its going to weigh a lot more than that on the trailer. A lot more.
I've owned several 7.3's and 4 superdutys including my 2015 F350 6.7. There is no way the 99' is going to haul that around when max tow was 13000 with an empty truck. You will need a one ton dually on a goose and permits to tow it. Maybe a pilot car.

Thank you. I gave up on the idea of being able to tow it myself.

 

[Benny67]

My truck tows my boat like its nothing along with my car on a uhaul. That's probably close to 6k fully loaded. But I understand what you're saying.

Honestly, 99% of its use would be on the lake. But like I said, it'd be really cool to be able to drop it off on the coast and boat to the Bahamas or keys.

Any idea what it would cost to have it shipped about 200 miles away? It will cost me $800/yr for storage of I did own a trailer. So not owning one will save me that much every year.

That boat weights WAY more than 6K LBS.... My 27 twin screw w/ twin 190's weights 6200 lbs dry.

I have a 27ft Carver that I store at my house in the off season and have it hauled back and forth to the nearest launch ramp for the LI sound.

Each trip costs $10/ft + 4.00/mile. Roughly $460 each way for me.

I have a real deal on my slip for $2K/ season. But it's a no frills Dock with electric only behind a locked gate (Thank God cause it's a shady neighborhood)

Each trip I go out on costs at least $30 in fuel...and that's if I stay local.

Borrowing nothing goes wrong and it NEVER breaks (100% it will break at some point) you are looking at a minimum of $3500-$4000 JUST TO GET IT TO THE WATER..

As far as going to the Keys or the Bahamas....that's not the boat to do it in...at least if you value you life. Too many things could go wrong with a boat that old

Heading off shore like that with an old lady like that is just asking for trouble.

I don't want to discourage you but, that's what you are up against.

Also, I don't think your Truck will tow that "with ease" It's a big boat...heavier than you think.

My advice would be to look for something a bit smaller and newer. You can have a 25 to 28 ft Cruiser that is 20 years newer with all of these options for the same, if not less money and it would be more reliable.

Good luck.

 

[mickyryan]

I started out boating when I was really young , my parents took on a 30 footer for awhile it was a 71 broadwater boat, anyways one thing before you bite , kids need to be a wee bit older to really enjoy it , you will eventually hate not being able to tow it extremely expensive, especially since its in the water 24/7 look for a 22/26 ft boat with cabin you will enjoy it tow it and kids will grow into it, then if you decide to jump up there will alwayts be great deals on big old boats because there isn't as much a market for them

 

[Steve91T]

Don't worry guys, not thinking about trailering.

We really like the late 70's to early 80's Christ Craft Catalina 35' aft cabin. I've read good things about the strong fiberglass hull and it has the lay out that we want.

The costs I've come up with...

Slip $350/month
Fuel burn 1.5 MPG at 6 or 7 kts. .75 MPG at 14 kts.
Our normal lake day trip. $30-$50
Spending a few days exploring the lake, $250-$300
The Copper river sounds like a blast. A couple of big lakes, winding rivers, locks with 75' drops and it dumps to Charleston. $800-$1000 to get the boat to the river. Then probably about $200-$400 in fuel to get to Charleston. Of course that's if nothing breaks.

I'd be interested in a slow cruise to save fuel and enjoy the trip. We plan to never be in a hurry.

We'd want to play in Charleston for a while. We have friends there and plus it's a really cool city. Then the plan would be to leave the boat at a marina for a while and fly or drive home. We'd then have our boat in Charleston for a few months just exploring. Then the return trip would be just as fun.

I start adding up the numbers and it starts to sound pretty crazy. But then I think about my neighbors who took their kids to Disney. They spent an unbelievable amount on their vacation. Maybe having this boat isn't as crazy as it sounds? The memories we'd be able to make would be priceless.

We'd spend a season on the lake working out any bugs and fixing what needs it before making a trip like that. Plus I have a lot to learn.

Thoughts?

 

[Scott Danforth]

Once you accept the fact a boat is a hole in the water that you pour money into you can enjoy the hobby

 

[Natesms]

I went from the 20' range up to a 1995, 33' Chris Craft Crown a few years ago. I love my Chris Craft, it has been a fantastic boat and we enjoy it a lot. Boats you are looking at will have roughly a lot of the same expenses and maintenance as my boat. Stuff just breaks, needs updating etc.

I split the boat with a friend of mine for 3 full seasons and we divided everything 50/50. We had to track everything to the penny. I will share our costs for the first few years. This includes everything from slip, to speakers to bilge pumps to hose clamps. It also includes most* fuel. Sometimes we'd just split it at the pump so add maybe $600 a year in fuel. Also - I do all maintenance possible. You can't do 100% of the maintenance because you'll have to have the boat pulled to do some of it.

I will post the yearly totals, if you want the details I'll try to figure out how to publish the spreadsheets.

Background:
We paid $25K for the boat in November of 2012. For all years below we did have a payment on the boat of $264 a month, slip rental was $260 a month. Fuel is about $1500 a year. Fuel is the cheap part.

We had no major issues during this time. Normal wear and tear. The weirdest $2K expense - we wrapped a rope up in the prop that had a metal clip on the end. It flung around, busted the covers off the outdrives and broke some linkage. I still put that in the normal wear and tear category.

2012 -

5,342 (we drove the boat 4 miles and winterized it)
2013 - 12,221
2014 - 9,410
2015 - 9,105

I have since bought out my friend and paid the boat off. I don't track the expenses anymore but I know they haven't gone down This year was the first year with bottom paint. Between that and the dive service I had a $4k April - again nothing was broken just maintenance.

For what it is worth, I have zero regrets buying the boat, and we've just figured out how to absorb the costs. ​