Spark Advance Rod Falls Out - 86, 110hp

[realboats]

1986 Johnson 110hp V4 Crossflow. A simple but very annoying and dangerous problem is driving me nuts. The spark advance rod will not stay in the plastic swivel/clamp/retainer/keeper (whatever it's called) located on the timer base spark advance lever. When the end of this linkage rod falls out, it drops onto the engine and will jam against something when I move the throttle lever, resulting in my having to do an emergency shut-down of the engine. It's happened twice with the second time in a rip tide resulting in damn near loss of the boat!<br /><br />I returned to the mooring with the kicker and won't touch that beast until I find out what's going on. The two plastic pieces which fit together on the spark advance lever are NEW (The old one had similar problems when the engine was still on the test stand and I replaced both parts). <br /><br />I figure it has to be one of the following:<br />- The two pieces are not installed correctly thereby not exerting enough clamping force on the spark advance rod.<br />- There is perhaps a third retainer clip not shown in the parts catalog that is missing.<br />- The spark advance rod should be peened, or have some type of press fit cap on it to keep it from sliding down. It is perfectly smooth.<br />-This is yet another example of OMC engineering excellence (just one in a long list) which won't work without some sort of "fix".<br /><br />I searched throughout this forum and have not been able to find an reference to this problem. So I figure either I did something wrong putting the linkage together or people just learn to live with this and find a way to jury rig the rod so it doesn't fall out.<br /><br />I'm sure solution is something simple. Please respond soon so I can get back at the helm. I'm not going to buy another chincy plastic retainer at an outrageous price only to have it do the same thing.

 

[almost retired again]

Re: Spark Advance Rod Falls Out - 86, 110hp

hi Realboats;<br />I've seen this problem several times, usually the fix is a new ball and socket. However you say that you have replaced this, but sometimes when the socket is installed the little teeth on the bottom of the socket get broken as the socket is rather difficult to install. Check that, it might be your problem, but the thing that keeps the rod from falling out is on the bottom of the ball and the rod snaps into this and keeps it from falling out. Is the rod snapped in place good?

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Spark Advance Rod Falls Out - 86, 110hp

With the advance rod disconnected, how free does the timer base rotate? Is it binding, putting undo stress on the plastic ball, and socket. When installing a new socket, put a small amount of grease on the ball to ease assembly. That rod should sit in a straight level line if assembled properly, though I don't see how you could get this wrong.

 

[realboats]

Re: Spark Advance Rod Falls Out - 86, 110hp

Hi Almost. Jeez, sure wish I was almost retired. I'm 50, between careers, kids in college, blah blah blah. No retirement in my future. Enough of that. Thanks for the friendly and descriptive response.<br /><br />Socket installation went fine. I did work it quite a bit playing around with my whole shift/throttle linkage plus static timing. Probably wore it out. I just can't believe they would use a straight smooth linkage rod for something so critical! No broken teeth or anything like that on the plastic parts. A friend who worked for years as a motorcycle mechanic was rather shocked at the design also. He suggested going with a "Jesus Clip" (no offense to the religiously sensitive reading this; that's the term he used and I'm passing it on), which is a metal springy clip that slides over the end of the linkage rod and hooks over the ball and socket assembly. It acts as a safety "keeper" to prevent a repeat of yesterday's disaster. Perhaps there's something in the auto or rv market that might work?<br /><br />R Johnson, I should have mentioned the issue of timer base binding in the original post. I used a synthetic, anti-corrosive grease in the retaining ring when installing the timer base. It's rotates very easily and is as smooth as a baby's butt. Definitely not a problem. <br /><br />I've showed this to a few friends, including a former equipment design engineer and the response is alway shock with a comment like "#@$*@ UP!"<br /><br />Is it possible I could have damaged or wore out this little plastic toy (ball and socket) by forcing the spark advance against its stop during the static timing and placing excessive lateral force against it?<br /><br />Tell me I don't have to pull the flywheel to replace this again????? It looks like a very close fit if I don't. I installed the last one on the timer base before installing the base itself. <br /><br />Theoretically, I should be able to drill holes through the rod with my drill press, and use cotter pins and a bushing with washers similar to the ones used throughout the rest of the linkage, right? (I don't expect anyone to commit an answer on something this critical, but just thought I would throw the idea out there) <br /><br />Thanks!

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Spark Advance Rod Falls Out - 86, 110hp

Although I have had the socket portion of the assembly break when snapping it apart, I really don't know of any problem's with this component when properly installed. They have used that ball, and socket for a long time. I just can't see what is going wrong here.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Spark Advance Rod Falls Out - 86, 110hp

If the replacement socket and ball was not black, you've purchased the old type.<br /><br />The new improved socket and ball is black and is part number 395448. Any Evinrude/Johnson dealership should have them in stock.<br /><br />The socket (new type, no teeth) is somewhat of a bear to install, easier if you remove the flywheel. If you have a problem finding the black socket/ball, I have a few left in my remaining stock.<br /><br />ReevesJ32@aol.com

 

[svdk]

Re: Spark Advance Rod Falls Out - 86, 110hp

realboats,<br /><br />Have you figured this out? I have a '81, 115 hp that had the old style socket and ball. It developed a hairline crack in the snap that holds the linkage rod. <br /><br />I replaced it with the newer joint that Reeves mentioned and it seems to work fine. With the newer design it is indeed a pain to install without removing the flywheel. I purchased a couple just in case I broke the socket while attempting to re-install.

 

[realboats]

Re: Spark Advance Rod Falls Out - 86, 110hp

Thanks. The new socket and ball I bought are the later model black one. Guess I shoul buy two. Is the section of linkage that slides into the socket/ball assembly smooth and square cut at the end? You would think there would at least be a safety wire or SOMETHING to act as a backup holder. <br /><br />I'd like to say, "I'm not an engineer but...", but the fact is I designed automated equipment for years in a past life. This sort of design is totally unacceptable. Think about it for a second. Metal rod goes into plastic ball and socket assembly. Plastic gets a year or two old, cracks, linkage falls out while you're underway, and wedges somewhere on engine, jams throttle, and while you're out of control the absence of proper spark advance is melting your pistons. Then you run aground, smash into other boat, whatever. <br /><br />There is no way anyone is going to convince me this is an acceptable design. It scares the hell out of me. And taking the flywheel off makes the installation easier for a tiny plastic part? Come on! But now that I've vented, guess I'll get back to work. Thanks for your help!

 

[realboats]

Re: Spark Advance Rod Falls Out - 86, 110hp

Thanks for the part number, Joe. I hate to get on my soapbox this way, but Jeez, I'm amazed more hasn't been said about this. Perhaps I haven't given the part enough credit for being strong enough. <br /><br />I'm still going to try and add a simple safety wire to keep the darn rod from falling out and jamming the throttle again.

 

[svdk]

Re: Spark Advance Rod Falls Out - 86, 110hp

realboats,<br /><br />I bought three, thinking I would break one during installation and keep one as a spare while on the lake. <br /><br />I agree, there should be away to improve the design. It seems the likely point of failure would always be the u-shaped snap on the bottom of the ball. By appearance it seems these parts should fail much easier. However, on my motor, I don't believe this part was ever replaced except for two weeks ago (24 yrs is pretty good for plastic).<br /><br />You asked about the linkage rod that slides into the ball. On mine, (if I remeber correctly) there are two 90 degree bends at the end of the rod (the bends are in different planes). The rod is smooth and round in diameter the entire length with the end cut flat. The last 90 degree leg snaps into the u-shaped snap on the bottom of the ball and the tag end of the rod slips up into the center of the ball. Other than that u-shaped snap, there is nothing from keeping that rod from slipping out.

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Spark Advance Rod Falls Out - 86, 110hp

You may have been a designer! but that little plastic ball, and socket has you on the ropes'. Went, and looked at my 73, 135. White plastic ball, and socket, original. 32 year's old without a problem! That is one **** poor design, I think I will safety wire it up.

 

[realboats]

Re: Spark Advance Rod Falls Out - 86, 110hp

I'm sure your engine ran fine without any incident. But then, back in the 80's the Space Shuttle had 25 flawless launches on o-rings that a few pee-ons thought were inferior. <br /><br />If you think it's adequate, fine. I respect your decision. But it goes against everything I've learned. And, yes, there will be a clip or safety wire there now. Maybe the new ball and socket I bought were defective in some way. But I'm not going to broadside another boat to find out.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Spark Advance Rod Falls Out - 86, 110hp

Realboat...... If for any reason the flywheel is momentarily grabbing the timer base, that will yank that linkage rod out of the ball/socket.<br /><br />I don't recall the exact cause of the grabbing (main bearings, loose timer base retainers?) but I do recall working on a few engines where that was the problem. Might be worth inspecting the timer base and flywheel etc for rub marks.

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Spark Advance Rod Falls Out - 86, 110hp

The people that made those o-rings told them not to launch, and what in the hell are you talking about? If you are having failure's with that common joint, get a manual an do it properly. Did you screw with the throttle stop[ screw by chance?