Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

[Maclin]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

I will do what I can to help you keep it alive, I love your spirit...

 

[EarlyWood]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

I changed the oil and filter twice since my complaint about oil in the water, second time going to a 10W 40W. I've run her on the lake since (without thermostat) sometimes hard and haven't seen a return of water in the oil, but I'm not without issues.
Without the thermostat in I've had a couple successful days( read: did not get towed in, no overheat) and she runs cool, but the other night after running from one end of the lake to the other at @3000 rpms constant, I decided to putter and enjoy the evening stars.. not long after she decided to stall out, a few times, I couldn't get up any speed, she'd stall again. I'm lucky I made it back to the dock, lucky there was no hurry. There wasn't anyone else on the lake.
I decided she was running too cool, so the next day I installed a new thermostat and gasket. She ran too hot and went back to the old runs great but reach a certain temp and then shut down. Would start up and idle but that was about it, couldn't get up any speed without stalling.
I removed the new thermostat next day and tried to run her but now she's all messed up and stalls much sooner. She will idle though.
I removed the carburetor for inspection and cleaning (yeah I know.. finally)
I did find that the choke plate tube repair job didn't last long and was loose again.

I TRIED TO REMOVE THE EXHAUST MANIFOLD TONIGHT AND COULDN'T GET IT OFF. I removed 3 bolts and two nuts attached to two other bolts. I even used a large construction pry bar. It felt as if there were more bolts holding on but can't find any. I could get it to move on the ends only but didn't want to force/break anything. What am I doing wrong? (easy, now)
The exhaust elbow/riser had about two tablespoons of grittiness fall out plus a decent size chunk of rubber (@1/4"),guessing from the old impeller,

Should water be sitting here?

no flapper on that bar

The oil has been looking good lately

how does this plug look

a shaky shot but she was ripping smoothly

before all went wrong that evening I towed someone else in, was happy to be able to give back a little

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

No, there shouldn't be water in your manifolds. It COULD have something to do with the fact that you have no flappers... Better find out for sure.

 

[achris]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

No, there shouldn't be water in your manifolds. It COULD have something to do with the fact that you have no flappers... Better find out for sure.

More likely you have a hole (corrosion) somewhere... You need a new manifold and elbow. You probably also need the leg serviced, an inspection of the water pump at the very least. While the leg is off, check the water pocket cover. If you found water pump impeller in the elbow water passages, then you can wager a house on the fact that there will be more still in the engine passages.

Word of warning... and you really should read this..... Stop using the boat until you have fixed ALL the problems. You are already up for quite a bit, don't destroy other parts that don't need to be replaced, yet!

Chris.........

 

[EarlyWood]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

Uraijit...my wife used to call me that (and i did run the boat in some very choppy water the other day, big waves, lots of porpoising)

HOW DO I GET THE EXHAUST MANIFOLD OFF? I searched for stuck manifold removal and all, and the manual i downloaded just says remove the holding bolts, no pics or count of how many.
I can pry the ends, get some movement but the center portion does not budge.
The exhaust elbow/riser came off easily.

achris

are you a fat lady?


thanks again, guys

 

[chiefalen]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

How many bolts did you get off, there might be one around the right side short one goes into the head.

Take off the t-stat housing completely, from the head, shine a light into the hole tell me what you see.

I'm still waiting for the gaskets cause i found in mine a hole in the wall right behind the t-stat hole. It was a small hole till i touched it with my finger was like paper caved in rusted out now theres a 1/2" sized hole.

 

[EarlyWood]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

three long bolts, maybe @ 4" + and two nuts from studs coming out of manifold, all horizontal. i can't seem to get a visual on any more and i ran my hand all over that thing..lots of drain screws on the bottom..so anyway she's stuck. i'd love to get it off.

i'm going to go blow in the carburetor and put her back on ))

 

[Maclin]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

Never heard of blowing in the carb for good luck.......but luck is all that is keeping that thing from harming itself into more and bigger repairs.

If you are wanting to get the manifold off to try to fix an internal water passage leak in the manifold then you may have to blow REAL hard into that carb (for more luck)! Because if it is leaking internally I am pretty sure there is no way to reach in there for any kind of fix, plus there will be no good metal to work with.

Pretty soon the exhaust valves will corrode and stick if water is getting back to them from the exhaust manifold or riser water passages. You are also toying with hydrolock which can lead to bent/broken piston connecting rods.

It may just want new parts every 35 years or so, looks like this is your year.

 

[achris]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

I am not a fat lady, neither am I stupid enough to keep running an engine with the type of problems you have and not expect that I will break something else....

You should have 6 (six) studs with nuts on the ends holding the manifold on....

Chris..........

 

[EarlyWood]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

Jeeze achris, go back a few posts here and lighten up. And are you talking about my '73 cause I'm thinking not..


I like to take things apart and it seems like it should be an easy removal. Never stripped an engine down before. I don't think I've missed any bolts. How many bolts do you have, Chieflan? We have the same engine, a '73?
Maybe I did miss a bolt but it's gotta be hiding pretty good. Like I said before, with a long crow bar, I can get movement on the ends, the center is stuck (and I'm just not seeing any bolts in the center area that I haven't already removed.

I took the carb apart as far as I think it can be and blew compressed air through every hole, every port I could find and even some I couldn't find. I noticed that when blowing into the fuel intake line I wasn't getting any air ( or very little) which theoretically should be gas going into the float bowl. When I reversed the direction of the air, lots of stuff blew out. Took the filter out and blew that. So yeah, I did blow into the carb for luck and like I said before I've always been pretty lucky.

Maclin, yur being like ..all kinds of negative again

 

[achris]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

Early...

Yes, I am talking about your 1973 120hp Mercruiser... I looked up my parts listing for just that model...

I think rather than 'lighten up' as you put it, I will bow out of this thread, but leave you with one though... You need to get real about what has happened to your engine and stop making fun of the rest of us who are doing our best to help you.

I think my time will best be spent helping people who want help.... You're expecting a miracle..... That's like blowing in the carb to fix a corroded out manifold....

Chris..........

 

[EarlyWood]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

achris,
I removed 3 bolts, there's two nuts that were on studs. When I get back to the boat I'll search for this sixth stud or bolt...and report back. I'll look at the corroded out manifold when I can get the damn thing off.
I'm real about what is happening to my engine and OF COUSRE I'm hoping not to find things badly damaged. I can't verify this manifold is thirty five years old. I hear everything that's being said, all of the advice. I'm not going to replace every item on this engine in a process of elimination, so I'm absorbing the issues. I'll blow out my carb hoping that the stalling issue has something to do with the carb filter and not water. Maybe the water is in the manifold because of the lack of flapper and the choppy water I was in the other day..
Anyway, making fun of those trying to help? Pffffft......

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

Yeah, I would inspect and pressure test the manifold and riser, before throwing another on it. There's a small possibility it's from the lack of flappers.

You're going about it the smart way. Verify, THEN replace. I fear you will still have to replace it, but knowing where you're coming from, I HOPE it's just the flappers.

Good luck.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

Water won't just sit in there from a flapper-less choppy water intrusion if the engine was running at all after that. What probably happened is the water ran down out of the riser after the engine was shut off. I think your assessment of why the water was in the manifold is very very optimistic and not very realistic, that may be where you sense negativity,

In an earlier post you said something about jb-welding the crap out of it, "it" meaning the exhaust manifold, once it was suggested that perhaps it was rusted out. That also is a very optimistic view of how to patch an item like that.

I like the can-do-ism. I just do not understand the reticence that you have displayed against the reality of what the symptoms mean as given to you frankly from the collective expertise helping you decipher those symptoms.

You probably can't fix the manifold and riser. You probably need new ones, there is no real definitive test other than observing symptoms. It is more than past due if that much junk came out of the riser, just my opinion. It has been overheating because of the rogue impeller piece all along, glad you found that. But you also found reasons to not run the boat until it has new exhaust manifold and riser.

If your next post says "how do I fix this old manifold that i finally removed and looks corroded" then get ready for more perceived negativity!

 

[EarlyWood]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

It's the collective experience here that's prompting me to do the removals. If you had a record of my search using the search function here you'd know how serious I am about understanding what's happening. That said, I'll try to band aid the **** out of this thing to eek out the last days of summer/fall until I have the proper time and budget. Will I ruin the engine?... maybe.

Did I tell ya that when removing the alternator tensioning bolt, in anticipation of getting the manifold off, that she flopped down and didn't stop?? Part of the housing broke and is still attached to the pivot bolt. Yeah Baby ))))
(any bets that I'll be reusing that?)

How heavy are you Maclin?

))))


stick around

 

[Maclin]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

If I was female and in an opera I would be close to looking like the fat lady and would be warming up right now for the climaxe!

I hope you can get thru the season with no major "extra" damage


disclaimer: I can sing well but not quite fat-lady-opera style. I did outsing a backup guy for the New York Metropolitan in a semi final contest once, they did not make us dress up in any Viking outfits though (whew). But then another guy came in and blew us all away and got the gig.

 

[tarheelebbtide]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

I'm buying stock in JB Weld...sounds like their sales are going to spike this winter!

 

[EarlyWood]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

If I was female and in an opera I would be close to looking like the fat lady and would be warming up right now for the climaxe

Hold that thought..

 

[EarlyWood]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

achris, i found that sixth bolt hiding beneath the throttle lever assembly on the manifold..

The weekend was a comedy of errors. The exhaust manifold looked like **** on the inside but for whatever reason I don't have pics of that..


does this constitute a bad head gasket?

random shot

JB weld candidate

would love to elaborate on the weekend highlites, the broken bolt, the broken spark plug, water shooting out of the splark plug holes, gas shooting out of the carburetor air vent,
yeah baby
it doesn't get any better than this..

 

[krisnowicki]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

Your answers
1. yes you have a blown head gasket. Water could have gotten in this way it is consitent with having water in just one cylinder. You engine is 35 years old and still running. Out of respect for that and hoping we are going to get another 35 out of it. Buy a new head and gasket hoping the block where the head meets the block has not warped will solve that problem.
2. Manifolds and Risers go bad. Usually if they do you will get water in most cylinders and the water will trickle down the open valves after you shut the engine off. Yours probably have and even if they aren't if they are 35 years old they will soon. Get a new riser and manifold bolt it up with a new gasket to your new head.
3. The real bad news is that in the bottom of your engine you have bearings on your rods and so on. These bearings do not like water, so the fact that after you found the milk shake oil you kept running this engine may have cause more damages especially to these bearings. Which means that if you love this boat a lot you may want to consider a new longblock. There is a chance that there is damage un founded yet in the bottom of the engine or damage to these bearings that when you put them under real stress that will cause a break down in the future.