Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

[Gohot]

I guess some of us are always thinking up some crazy and different thing for their boats. I was wondering about the feasability of mounting an aluminum mast of about 15' and along with guide wires of some sort, making a square sail of about 8 high and 10-12 wide. I see these kind of sails in pics. in the middle east and the African areas, and it just came to mind that it might be a solution for powering my boat. I dont know how they tacked or anything more than just seeing pictures of these kind of boats. Have any of you out there thought along these lines? or actually know of such a unit in use, or even a site with pics and plans? oh what am I saying, you'll think me crazy:facepalm:

 

[pmillar]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

So, you're thinking of mounting rigging and a sail on a bowrider powerboat? If so, where to begin... other than to say sure, it's possible but it's also a bad idea. To begin with, your boat wasn't designed to handle the stresses that a mast and full sail bring. That may not be an issue... but stability and steering are issues. How would you steer? Make shift rudder? Ok, what's to keep it moving the direction you want vs. blowing wherever the wind takes you? Centerboard? Nope. Daggerboard? Nope. Sideboards? Possible, but ridiculous.

Just pick up an inexpensive day sailor, try it out to see if you like it. It's fun and much cheaper to operate than a powerboat... even before $4.00/gallon gas. (IMO, not as fun thought unless you're racing!)

 

[Gohot]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

Oh to tell you the truth, it's a stupid idea, I got it from watching a youtube dealie on a couple of guys going down the Mississippi in inflatable canoe/kayacs and it just seemed like a neat way of powering. Truth be told, it's probably a great time to find a sailboat these days, especially if you can get down to the coast (NC. for me) and look around, I'd imagine there's a load of guys that would just 'walk away' from their Sailboat, just to save their credit and get more financially sound. It's against the grain for me to take advantage, but if their going to loose it anyway, well fortune does smile on some....

 

[Xandre]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

I've been toying with this same idea lately! I have a small 14 ft 1969ish fiberglass runabout I have been thinking of making a sail and rudder for. My main reason was to bring me back to shore in the event my motor fails.

Prior to reading this thread I had not taken into account the stress the mast/wind bring to haul. I was more concerned about steering and how the shape of my boat would affect the physics a sail dictates.

How were you going to attach the the mast to your boat?

How large does a sail need to be to be sufficient for a boat X feet long and Y lbs? Is there a certain number of required square feet?

 

[skibrain]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

If you are really concerned about getting back to shore after motor failure I would recommend buying an auxiliary outboard motor or installing oar locks and keeping a pair of oars on board. Seriously. Either would be easier to install, store, and operate than converting your boat to a sailboat.

If you want to get into sailing, buy a real sailboat. They are a lot of fun.

 

[Xandre]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

If you are really concerned about getting back to shore after motor failure I would recommend buying an auxiliary outboard motor or installing oar locks and keeping a pair of oars on board. Seriously. Either would be easier to install, store, and operate than converting your boat to a sailboat.

If you want to get into sailing, buy a real sailboat. They are a lot of fun.

I have oars of course and I do go sailing though I don't own a sail boat.

The point of building a sail isn't to get into sailing but as an experiment even if it's just a hypothetical discussion. Nobody seems into being creative or up for a design challenge

 

[skibrain]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

Of course it could be done. Just seems like a lot of work and would compromise your existing boat in the process.

To provide lateral resistance you would need a pretty significant daggerboard or centerboard. Cut a slot in the bottom of your hull and reinforce to handle the load. Provide a way to seal this off when daggerboard is up and operating the boat as a runabout.

Masts are either freestanding (need a deep hole to mount) or supported with cable stays. I think the later would be easier to rig and require a less substantial base plug - but still a reinforced base. There is a significant vertical load at the base of a mast. I'd buy a used sailboat as a donor for all the sailboat parts.

Optimal placement of mast and daggerboard (location fore and aft) would be key. A runabout with the outboard at the back may be a bit stern-heavy and something to consider. I suppose there are sailboat designers that would have formulas for locating this stuff. I'd probably mess it up at least once and have to patch and fill a couple times to get it right.

 

[Xandre]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

Of course it could be done. Just seems like a lot of work and would compromise your existing boat in the process.

To provide lateral resistance you would need a pretty significant daggerboard or centerboard. Cut a slot in the bottom of your hull and reinforce to handle the load. Provide a way to seal this off when daggerboard is up and operating the boat as a runabout.

Masts are either freestanding (need a deep hole to mount) or supported with cable stays. I think the later would be easier to rig and require a less substantial base plug - but still a reinforced base. There is a significant vertical load at the base of a mast. I'd buy a used sailboat as a donor for all the sailboat parts.

Optimal placement of mast and daggerboard (location fore and aft) would be key. A runabout with the outboard at the back may be a bit stern-heavy and something to consider. I suppose there are sailboat designers that would have formulas for locating this stuff. I'd probably mess it up at least once and have to patch and fill a couple times to get it right.

Thanks for sticking with with me on this! Your thoughts are exactly what I needed to answer concerns I had!

The biggest obstacle in my mind here is the daggerboard. I'm not open to cutting into my hull and that alone defines why you're right that this isn't a good solution.

Thanks! =)

 

[skibrain]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

If you do some searches under "sail rig for canoe" you will find a variety of sites that apply this idea to a canoe. Narrower and lower gunwales of course. They use a pair of lee boards outside of the hull. Maybe everything you would need, or at least need to scale-up and replicate in order to give it a try.

http://www.castlecraft.com/sail_rigs.htm

 

[Xandre]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

If you do some searches under "sail rig for canoe" you will find a variety of sites that apply this idea to a canoe. Narrower and lower gunwales of course. They use a pair of lee boards outside of the hull. Maybe everything you would need, or at least need to scale-up and replicate in order to give it a try.

http://www.castlecraft.com/sail_rigs.htm

Perfect Thank you!

 

[drrpm]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

I knew a guy who had one of those sail canoe conversions. I sailed it with him once and it wasn't much good as a canoe or sailboat. Based on that experience I'd say putting a sail on a bowrider would lead to a really crappy boat. I currently have a bowrider and several canoes and I've had a sailboat too so I have a good idea about how these boats work. If you do it let us know how it works out (good or bad) .

 

[Xandre]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

I knew a guy who had one of those sail canoe conversions. I sailed it with him once and it wasn't much good as a canoe or sailboat. Based on that experience I'd say putting a sail on a bowrider would lead to a really crappy boat. I currently have a bowrider and several canoes and I've had a sailboat too so I have a good idea about how these boats work. If you do it let us know how it works out (good or bad) .

Yep. Gave up on this idea thanks to everyone's input.

 

[Ritchie555]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

I know this is an old thread but....

LOL, I had the same idea too. We are people who rip the cap off, rip up the floor, replace stringers and transoms and put it all back together so reinforcing the hull for a mast foot isn't the problem... As noted earlier, unless you're only running downwind, you will need dagger/leeboards to reduce leeward drift. If you dont want your boat to look like a cocker spaniel it's a daggerboard. And that'll leave a bug hump on the deck after you've built the housing up past the waterline and reinforced it for lateral strength.

I have to reluctantly agree that on anything bigger than a canoe, a proper retrofit will cause your powerboat to be more of an inefficient sailboat with an engine.

Ritchie

 

[newkidontheblock]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

I dont know anything about boats, but one difference I can see between a sailboat and a runabout power boat is the bottom of the boat. Havent you ever noticed that big *** keel at the bottom of a sailboat that juts out like 3-5 feet? If I were to take a guess, I'd say that thing is to stabalize it from rolling over in winds strong enough to propel it forward. If you put a long *** pole sticking straight up and attach a sheet to it in a canoe, whats going to happen when the wind blows? Will you move forward? Uh, probably not unless the winds were perfect and you set the nose of the canoe properly into the wind. You'd probably just tip right over because nothing is stabilizing the bottom of the boat from rolling. So unless you plan on adding some SERIOUS performance decreasing hangage off the bottom of your boat, adding a mast is a really bad idea imho. I doubt it would take much to tip the boat over in winds strong enough to propel it anywhere let alone in the direction you want.

But it sure would look funny on the lake though thats for sure. I think you MIGHT be able to pull this off in a canoe since it's so easy to handle quickly, but in a power boat? certainly not. It's just to big to handle. It cant turn on a dime like a canoe in order to compensate for the tippage you're gonna experience when you arent heading into/away from the wind. In a sailboat I think that big keel is meant just for this purpose, it allows you to run in ANY direction regardless of where the wind is. Thats why sailboats are often seen going down the lake SIDEWAYS yet they never capsize.

Just my completely inexperienced and un-informed GUESS at this. If I can come up with logical reasons as to why it's probably not a good idea, then you can just imagine what someone experienced in sailing would say haha.

It's an amusing idea though. Maybe just use a big (like, really big. hugeamungo ginormous big) U.S. Flag on 2 poles while someone holds the poles just for giggles lol. It wouldnt work very well, but at least u could take it down in a hurry if the winds get to bad lol. Maybe you could break 1mph with it Then again, I could break that just drifting in the wind without the flag And when it's not being used as a sail, you can hang that sucker off your really tall aft light and fly it at 40mph lol It would give no meaning to Freedom can move mountains. It can also move boats ........ Maybe. lol

So there you have it. A mobile sail without the need to mount squat on your boat. 2 poles, a flag, and a sucker (or 2) to hold it all in place.

 

[laotou]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

Don't laugh at the idea. Google Power Sailboat. You can also check out youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1VunIRO_s4

 

[oops!]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

Don't laugh at the idea. Google Power Sailboat. You can also check out youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1VunIRO_s4

the macgregor is a hybrid......

it is totally different than sticking a pole to the deck of your bayliner capri or the top deck of your 1965 glass boat.

you need the keel or ballast......without that......over you go.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

When I was a kid my brother and I put sails on everything from bicycles to boats. Sometimes they actually worked but most often it was just something to laugh about. I think it would be a fun project on a old junker boat but I doubt I would try it on a decent bow rider unless it was some sort of temporary emergency rig. I'm imagining being stuck on a island and all I have is a broke down boat a 12 pack of warm Bud Light, a gum tree pole and a couple of beach towels. I mean seriously, warm Bud Light is definitely an emergency situation. LOL...

 

[Capt. Collywood]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

I'm with oops!.....take the McGregor over the MacGyver.

 

[laotou]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

I installed a square sail (3' x 7') on my 16' fiberglass power boat and did a sea trial today. The wind was 20-25 mph and the boat traveled at a reasonable speed. I did not have a GPS on board to confirm the speed. I had tons of fun. All materials are from HD/Lowes/HF.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: Square sail for a bowrider, has it been done before?

I installed a square sail (3' x 7') on my 16' fiberglass power boat and did a sea trial today. The wind was 20-25 mph and the boat traveled at a reasonable speed. I did not have a GPS on board to confirm the speed. I had tons of fun. All materials are from HD/Lowes/HF.

Wow !!!!! well done.
Steerable ??? stable ??? controllable ??? with 21 square foot of sail (1.95 metres) for the metric amongst us. Could well be enough to move and not enough to capsize in a light to moderate breeze.
Please elaborate and how about some photos.............................we all love photos.