Stalling When I put it in gear

RJDAWSON

Seaman
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Sep 4, 2005
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54
Great site! I searched this site last night about this subject and found some info, but spark plug gap at 0.30 stood out. I have a 1980 J70ELCSA,3 cyl, it has a long history of stalling after I leave the dock. It is second hand and I have no service history so I'm doing some rework myself, change fuel lines, cleaning carbs, change spark plugs. The book says 0.40 gap that is how I set it. The RPM seems slow,and the motor stalls when I put it in gear, this subject looks to be covered already on this site, I have a timinglight and a hand held tachometer, but have no insturctions to hooking them up to the motor, and the timelite dosn't work hooked to the battrey and the spark plug cable. What am I doing wrong? Do I need special tools in dealing with a magneto and should I close the spark gap to 0.30<br /><br />ZEKE440
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: Stalling When I put it in gear

The usual issues with a 3-cylinder "looper" stalling are:<br /><br />1. Fouled carbs.<br /><br />2. Idle-too low.
 

Solittle

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Apr 28, 2002
Messages
7,518
Re: Stalling When I put it in gear

Welcome Zeke - I'd follow DJ's advice long before I'd mess with the electrical stuff.
 

Xcusme

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Apr 21, 2003
Messages
2,888
Re: Stalling When I put it in gear

Yikes!! I surely hope you had a typo in those gap figures.<br /><br />They should be .030 and .040 respectively....
 

RJDAWSON

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Re: Stalling When I put it in gear

Xcusme,<br />Yes I see the typo, sorry.<br />Under the topic 'Johnson stalls when engaging gear,' posted Aug. 17, 2003, 'ob' Vice Admiral, member# 15076, says the gap should be .030 on the L77J4 plugs but the book says .040, big diffrence. <br />Thanks for all the responce. I will adjust the idle speed, carbs are clean, checking rpm and changing spark plugs is just part of it.
 

RJDAWSON

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Re: Stalling When I put it in gear

To update, I have cleaned the carbs,changed gaskets with a carb kit, new fuel lines cleaned fuel filter, new plugs- gaped at .040,and replaced worn out throttle cables. The book says nothing about the cable adjustment but I'm sure that I'm not adjusted right but still working on it. Put the boat in the water last night and can idle around the lake but when I give the gas it won't take it. Faster rpm and shifting is hard with no increase in speed.This is not good.<br />I need more help.I'm having trouble finding the sweet spot. <br />Email : rdawson@iquest.net......Please send help!
 

MCM

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Jun 1, 2005
Messages
1,201
Re: Stalling When I put it in gear

Hi ZEKE,<br /><br />Which book are you talking about, the the service manual for your motor should cover this.<br /><br />Not so sure about the Clymer or Seloc they tend to try and cover too many motors in each issue to be very specific about any particular motor.<br /><br />Mike :)
 

Mark42

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Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: Stalling When I put it in gear

Don't forget to do a "link 'n Synch". That is where the linkages between the throttle cable, carb and timing advance are measured and adjusted accordingly. That took care of my stalling when put in gear because it set the timing advance properly at idle.
 

RJDAWSON

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Re: Stalling When I put it in gear

Mark42, nice pics and nice boat, thanks.I have the Clymer book. Heres whats up, in checking the spark, I found cyl 1&3 are not fireing #2 strong spark. Ohms check on ign. coils, charge coil & sensor coil resistance are good, I cannot get an output reading with my Raido Shack tester, so I don't know what those components nor the power pack are putting out. <br />Do I need another tester or should I focus on the power pack replacement?<br />Times running out, vacation is comming this week.<br />Thanks.
 

Walker

Captain
Joined
Jun 15, 2002
Messages
3,085
Re: Stalling When I put it in gear

Go back to DJ's post. I don't think that motor will run let alone idle around the lake on one cylinder.
 

Joe Reeves

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Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: Stalling When I put it in gear

Compression should be 100+ psi and even on all cylinders. What are your readings?<br /><br />With the spark plugs removed, the spark should jump a 7/16" gap with a strong blue lightning like flame on all cylinders.... a real SNAP. Does it?<br /><br />Spark plugs in OMC's opinion should be Champion QL77JC4 plugs, gapped at .040 .<br /><br />Spark plugs, when removed, should all look alike. What do they look like, and if one differs from another, what is the difference in appearance?<br /><br />In cleaning the carburetors, make sure that you manually clean the fixed brass high speed jets that are located in the bottom center portion of the float chambers. Also manually clean that small brass tube that leads from the bottom nozzle portion of the upper body to the top slow speed passageway. If these fuel passages are restricted, the carburetor will cause that cylinder to run lean.
 

RJDAWSON

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Re: Stalling When I put it in gear

I had it on the lake last week and I saw oil and fuel coming up from the prop exhaust, and more spilled out when I took it out of the water. When I checked the spark I had no spark on the top cyl, Strong spark on the middle and low spark that has fadded to nothing on the bottom plug. I have cleaned the carbs set the linkage and can get Idle speed only, the motor dies when I throttle up. Sometimes the motor chugs like another cyl is kicking in, it also runs rough in idle. It reves up with throttle leaver, but dosen't sound as strong as it has. <br />With out spark on two cyl it can't burn the fuel its getting.
 

Joe Reeves

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Feb 24, 2002
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13,262
Re: Stalling When I put it in gear

Zeke..... Pertaining to your last post, I am assuming that on #2 coil, you do have spark (with the s/plugs removed) that will jump a 7/16" gap with a strong blue lightning like flame, what I would call a real SNAP! Anything less than this type spark is worthless so let us know what you're speaking of if it's anything less.<br /><br />Disconnect the large RED electrical connection at the engine, then with the spark plugs still removed, check the spark again. If you now have perfect spark, the usual cause is a intermitent shorted ignition switch.<br /><br />Having said that, since #2 coil is firing, you can test the other two coils simply by temporarily changing/switching the #1 and #3 orange coil wires to the #2 coil connection that leads from the powerpack. If, by doing this, both of the coils fire, you know that the coils are okay..... be sure to switch the orange coil leads back to where they belong.<br /><br />Check the sensors in the timer base as follows. Disconnect the timer base sensor plug from the powerpack.... the plug that contains a white, purple, green, and blue wire. Using an ohm meter, set the meter to Low Ohms. Connect the ohm meter's black lead to the white wire. Now connect the meter's red lead to the purple wire, then the green wire, then to the blue wire.<br /><br />If memory serves me right, the readings should be about 17 ohms +/- 5 ohms on those three wires. At any rate, they should all be the same. Are they?<br /><br />Now, change the meter setting to high ohms. Connect the black lead to a ground, preferably the timer base itself. Now connect the red wire to each of the purple, green, and blue wires. There should be no readings on this test. Any reading indicates that the sensor is grounded. What did you find here?<br /><br />If all the above checks out okay, I'd suspect that the powerpack is faulty. Let us know what you find.
 

RJDAWSON

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Re: Stalling When I put it in gear

Joe....I can get fire(a real SNAP) by moving the lead from 2 to 1&3, coils are good. Sensor check shows 5 ohms on each all the same, and no reading from ground as the book says. Help here local after going through it with him also said to change the power pack. That being done GOOD SPARK is on 2&3 but still not on 1. He asked if I see any thing that looks like hot tar or epoxey hanging on the stator and I do in one spot. He said to change it as well that it has been hot once and will only cause more problems down the creek (ha ha, a little joke).<br />I have not tried the ignition test at this time, but I will.<br />Zeke
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: Stalling When I put it in gear

Knowing that #1 coil is okay but not getting spark on #1 with a new powerpack would indicate that the orange wire from #1 coil or possibly the sensor connectors from the timer base to the powerpack connectors may not be making a proper connection.<br /><br />If a sticky substance is dripping down from the stator onto the block, that indicates that the stator has overheated bad. On your engine (small amp stator), that would be caused (usually) by a shorted rectifier. The rectifier can be tested as follows.<br /><br />(Small Rectifier Test)<br />(J. Reeves)<br /><br />Remove the rectifier wires from the terminal block. Using a ohm meter, connect the black lead of the ohm meter to the rectifier base (ground), then one by one, connect the red lead of the ohm meter to the yellow, yellow/gray, then the red wire (some rectifiers may also have a fourth yellow/blue wire. If so connect to that also). Now, reverse the ohm meter leads and check those same wires again. You should get a reading in one direction, and none at all in the other direction. <br /><br />Now, connect the black lead of the ohm meter to the red wire. One by one, connect the red lead of the ohm meter to the yellow, yellow/gray, and if present, the yellow/blue wire. Then reverse the leads, checking the wires again. Once more, you should get a reading in one direction and none in the other. <br /><br />Note that the reading obtained from the red rectifier wire will be lower then what is obtained from the other wires. <br /><br />Any deviation from the "Reading", "No Reading" as above indicates a faulty rectifier. Note that a rectifier will not tolerate reverse polarity. Simply touching the battery with the cables in the reverse order or hooking up a battery charger backwards will blow the diodes in the rectifier assy immediately.<br /><br />Note that if the rectifier was bad, your tachometer wouldn't operate and the battery wouldn't stay charged as that would kill the charging circuit
 

RJDAWSON

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Messages
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Re: Stalling When I put it in gear

Thanks Joe I'll check it out, and thanks agian for your intrest. Would the reading of 5 ohms across the sensor be any indicatorof the condition of the stator, the Clymer book says a range between 9- 21 is correct,I will check out the rectifier. Should I start looking for a new stator.<br /><br />Zeke
 

RJDAWSON

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Sep 4, 2005
Messages
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Re: Stalling When I put it in gear

Joe.. I checked the rectifier and the ohms readings were as you discribed,readings one way only on both tests, so Okay. I have no battery charging problems and have no tach on the motor,it never did. I'll check those conectors agian. I was told that a Fluke testor should give me voltage output of the components guess I'll look for one and should I start looking for a new stator.<br /><br />Zeke440
 

MCM

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Jun 1, 2005
Messages
1,201
Re: Stalling When I put it in gear

Zeke, If the stator has the sticky substance on it you described and Joe refered to in his post I think you should start looking for a new one.<br /><br />If you plan on buying a Fluke this link might be helpfull, it also has links to other troubleshooting pages. Lots of good info!<br /><br />You should be getting a reading of 450-600 ohms on the stator.<br /><br />As to the sensor reading of 5 ohms, are you refering to the timer base, if so I would suspect it may be failing as well, as those readings are on the low side of normal.<br /><br />Hope this helps & not confuses ;)
 

RJDAWSON

Seaman
Joined
Sep 4, 2005
Messages
54
Re: Stalling When I put it in gear

MCM... I understand.<br /> You left out the link for the Fluke. <br /> So fare finding a stator on this site (iboats) for my J70elcsa turns up nothing. Do you have an idea. <br />Thanks,<br /><br />Zeke
 
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